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Panda (Classic) Giuseppe the '88 Italian Thoroughbred Sisley

Introduction

We all know how hard it is at present to find a decent second hand 4x4 in this country, spending 3-4k will get you a clean looking one but it cannot guarantee that it hasn't been filled up with every kind of repair material going.
Knowing this it was hard to decide on what to do when Hadrian was finally condemned earlier this year - should I start saving for a guaranteed solid mk2 in this country, was it worth just forgetting the early models and look at going for a cheaper mk3, or should I think about widening the search over seas? It was obvious that it was not an option to forget getting another one!
After a lot of thought and discussion with friends, family and other forum members it was time to start looking.


The search began way out east: Japan.
A couple of friends of mine over in Newcastle have imported several cars from here, and after a little research it was found that Panda 4x4s quite regularly come up through the auctions that they use on the SmileJV network. After a couple of weeks an average sale price became apparent of between £200 and £600, but also on top of that the shipping costs and associated payments totalled around £3k to get to the point of collecting the car from the docks. It turned out to be quite costly to get a proper inspection done on the car before the bidding even started and given that the majority of Pandas that are available in Japan are left hand drive anyway it seemed like a better plan to start looking a bit more locally.


The search then carried on into Europe.
With a lot of help and advice from our Forum friends David aquamarine and Andy andyholli it seemed more practical to go down the lines of looking for one from the warmer regions of our European countries. With the possibility of help from members of our newly linked Italian Panda 4x4 Club the search widened to the southern regions of Italy, in order to find a sun-baked rot-free fully inspected by a trustworthy eye example which we could collect and drive/trailer back.


The ball had begun to roll, but then one evening not so long ago I was tagged on facebook by a friend in these photos...


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I began to enquire as it first seemed that these were a couple of off-the-radar cars.


Located down in Somerset these were two of eight Pandas that had been imported from Italy a couple of years previous by a company who were looking to make a bit of money on resale. Talking to Gavin Palio we found out that the owner had originally contacted him a while again since looking for help getting rid of them. Finding out that it was a fairly large company that were selling them was good in my eyes, because the prospects of communication was likely to be more positive, as I couldn't exactly just nip down and have a look! Thankfully Gav sorted a viewing out through one of his contacts who lived close by. Naturally I was interested in the Green 4x4; roofrack, lifted suspension and generally rough looking - ideal for me. The viewing took place, photos were taken and passed on and it became clear that the green one was out of the picture - rot had set in.
It was fantastic of Gav to help out, but I had messed up because I had told his contact to concentrate efforts on the green one and forget the other one - mainly because it had twin sunnies. Talking to Freddy panda1408 it was clear that I should forget the sunroof issue and strongly consider the Burgundy Sisley. Thankfully our Forum friend Si pandamonius_maximus had previously offered to help me out with a viewing so this time he went down to have a look around. The news came back; the news was good.


So one weekend two months ago Freddy and I set off southbound with the Landy and trailer to gain us a Panda, all being well ofcourse.
The day was sunny, the drive was long, but before long my new car was hitched up and on it's way back up North!


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Ofcourse we had to have a break on the way back and we'd kindly been invited for a late lunch at Si's pad. An excellent burger cooked on the Panda-Q 666 and a look at his cars later; we were back on the road.
The hour was late on our arrival back at Freddy's workshop, we barely had time to unhitch and ditch before I had to carry on my journey to the homelands...


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And that's where the first chapter ends! The car will stay at Freddy's to be professionally undersealed and cavity waxed before the build from the ashes of Hadrian begins.


So with some excellent pictures from Freddy and without further ado; this is my new Italian Thoroughbred Sisley!


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Named "Giuseppe" after the previous owner on the logbook, this car has come all the way from the province of Roma - and is solid as a rock...


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...apart from this bit...


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...and there might be an issue with the fuel tank...


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...and also the prop shaft may require changing...


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But apart from those small, little, minor, tiny problems - all in comparison with the work that Hadrian would have required - I am very pleased indeed.
Freddy and I rolled around in the dirt checking everything before handing over the cash initially, but he and I were pleasantly surprised to find just how good it really is considering the cost of the car!


So chapter two's beginning is now imminent. The car's running like a bag of spanners at present, suspected carb rebuild required (wahey) and a bloody good service should sort this out. Welding before the great underseal and cavity wax and then I will be heading down for a weekend of parts-transferring and UK road legal-making.


Chapter three will then consist of the paperwork. I have all of the forms required and the car has been properly NOVA'd on arrival in the UK. I will probably publish the work required in this thread for future reference of other members.


So for now all that's left is to say a massive thankyou again to all that have helped and continue to help me get back on the trails - David, Andy, Gav, Si and Freddy your are legends :)


The story will continue...


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Dead jealous - this is going to be an awesome Panda after the development process really kicks in. Can I put an alarm for twelve months time to return to the beginning of this thread and follow it through please?

I like that the rim's red highlight picks up with the spring, body colour (and David's top). - Properly excellent nineties clashing. Fab.

Great that plenty of Hadrian's bits are going on to Giuseppe. Can I have a go at tackling the rough running issues please? I love a tuning challenge.
 
Great that plenty of Hadrian's bits are going on to Giuseppe. Can I have a go at tackling the rough running issues please? I love a tuning challenge.

Yes plenty of Hadrian's parts are being used, I am especially pleased that we decided to use Hadrian's speedo clocks as well - thanks to David for the installation.

You are welcome to have a look at the rough running, providing it's ok with Freddy. We've swapped the carb for Hadrian's which made a good bit of difference, but Freddy was mainly concerned that after the engine had been timed up correctly the distributor is on it's furthest retarded adjustment, even though it's set correctly by the fly wheel. There is also a concern of blue smoke on tick over, and revs drop - suggesting possibly valve stem seals or even piston rings. Freddy's going to have a drive around the yard in it this week and see if it clears up or not.
 
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A couple of thoroughly enjoyable days for me, some excellent work completed, plenty of the usual banter and most importantly many cups of tea were consumed! We have made a good dent in the list of jobs and I'm hoping to get the ones remaining done in the next few weeks before MOT time.

I don't think the running issue is going to cause much of issue now, some time spent making some adjustments to the carb should see it good I think. The distributor is way over to one side of the adjustment but there was still enough left to get the correct timing settings, so not a problem. andyholli I will be in touch should I need some assistance...

The smoke is slightly more worrying but the engine needs a thorough run before a proper diagnosis can be made on that, unfortunately time, weather and steering alignment issues meant a test drive was not possible yesterday.
 
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Does the centrifugal advance machanism works as in specification? not sized up? dizzy swap will tell.
From my old "smoky" engine experience during Italy trip the stem seals did not done any better, but the smoke was extensive as you all seen.
 
It would be more like disconnect or snapped spring inside dizzy if already in max retard position, not sized up as suggested.
 
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It would be more like disconnect or snapped spring inside dizzy if already in max retard position, not sized up as suggested.

Thanks Jacob, this is not something I had checked so I had a look inside the dizzy yesterday, as far as I can see the spring is in place and with the vacuum advance pipe disconnected the timing is advancing when the engine is revved, so it would appear to working correctly.

The fuel tank is currently a plastic bottle under the bonnet, so I have decided that a proper tank needs to be installed before any further diagnosis of the poor running is undertaken.
 
Thanks Jacob, this is not something I had checked so I had a look inside the dizzy yesterday, as far as I can see the spring is in place and with the vacuum advance pipe disconnected the timing is advancing when the engine is revved, so it would appear to working correctly.

The fuel tank is currently a plastic bottle under the bonnet, so I have decided that a proper tank needs to be installed before any further diagnosis of the poor running is undertaken.

The tank is a FIAT/Tutela plastic bottle though so I'm sure it's OK.
 
I've been sorting out insurance for G this evening as part of the registration process of importing a vehicle.

As I stated in the introduction, when this vehicle was imported a couple of years ago it was registered with the HMRC via a NOVA within 14 days of landing on our soil. If this is not done it can be costly to get a vehicle registered as further fees and VAT payments can be introduced.

The next part of the process is to request an import a vehicle into the UK registration pack from gov.uk. In the pack you get the V55/5 form along with the guide to filling it in and a list of vehicle tax bands. For a vehicle that is over ten years old and being a model that was sold in this country, the form is quite simple to fill in (as long as we've done it correct!) although the guide does fill you full of fear as you read through it.

Along with the registration application, the form requires you to apply for tax at the same time. But before anything can be sent off the insurance must be applied for in order to send a copy of the cover note along with the registration form, MOT and associated payments.

I've been insured with Aviva since last year as they gave the highest quality of cover for our trip to Italy. I've been on the phone with them this evening and they were absolutely brilliant going through all of the details with me. When the MOT has been passed they will issue a temporary cover note prior to UK registration allowing me to apply for the registration and ownership documents. And the price it's costing me to insure an imported vehicle? An extra £22 more than it cost to insure Hadrian, I'm well happy with that.
 
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Could be coincidence but I've got similar sounding issues with the Pony Panda. - After running well for the first few road miles in years, it gradually deteriorated until there was only enough power to hit 20mph on the flat. aquamarine and I swapped everything we could think of - carb, dizzy, coil, leads, cap, rotor, amplifier and confirmed cam timing is right and fuel pump is chucking stuff through okay.
It now runs better but certainly not right - and the dizzy is like yours all the way against it's stop.
I can't think what would move the timing like that if the cam to crank marks are right.. Anyone any suggestions please?
 
Am I right to say that:
4 crankshaft revolutions per 1 camshaft rev.
Is it possible top have timming set at 180 degrees off?
No, 2 to 1. Exhaust open alternate 'up' strokes, inlet alternate 'down' stroke. As long as piston 1 is TDC when the cam timing marks line up you're good.
Could be worth swapping out the cambelt. Had one once that fitted fine but no matter what we did it would adjust half a tooth out one way or the other, like the belt was very slightly too long, or short, one or the other. Seemed just to be a duff belt. Would account for the dizzy position being a bit out but still not for the problems you're having.
 
1. Check that crank pulley mark lines-up with flywheel mark.
2. Check physicaly Cyl.1 TDC by sticking long non metal object (i.e new pencil) in cylinder no.1 through spark plug hole- compare to pulley and flywheel mark.

In both cases - that little key thing between pulley and crank shaft might be gone.
And that's why car run fine for few miles, as the pulley moved by some.
 
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