Punto (Mk1) 1994 Punto Cabriolet ELX 90

tbf im sure most the mk1 peeps are wondering what i am on about - unless they also frequent classic panda section.... i see Liquid_Knight in both, not many others though

blu73 said:

its pretty common on quite a few older fiats...

classic pandas, early cinquecentos and some seicento have wet shaft boxes. And yes its a crap design, you have to be on it with them cause as you can imagine, when one goes you have to pick up on it fast or you need a new gearbox lol.

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Those "Older" Fiats I missed out on, nothing like that on 128, X1/9, 127 etc, they were my fiat years ago. Only back on Fiats for the last 7/8 yrs or so. No wonder they abandoned that system, sounds nasty to say the least.

varesecrazy said:

they are far better than the alternative = "Nothing"

NOT worth the £30 odd quid new, but the "covers all 90's FIAT" version for under a tenner used is a sound investment

( none on UK ebay currently)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lindsay-P...SwfZ1WYvNO&clk_rvr_id=984642214143&rmvSB=true

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I have both the Haynes and the Porter, OK the Porter does a bit on the 16V and 1.6 engine but little else, Absolutely nothing on the hood for a start. I was trying to make out the wiring diagram in the Porter last week and even with a magnifying glass it is very hard to read and certainly bore no resemblance to the wiring in my cabrio. I suppose some is better than none all the same.

digger58
out of interest , is that the punto specific manual..or the one with tipo/tempra too.?

I bought it because Haynes were so poor, owning diesels it was the only real alternative..,

thankfully not really had electrical issues in our 30+ FIAT's so wiring diagrams have remained a mystery..

I find that covering so many models it's got the basics for MOST things you'll come across on a 90's FIAT, 3 x brake set-ups, Spi, Mpi, primitive airbag and ABS info too.

Main reason I stopped buying Haynes was they stopped telling you how to repair components.."renew" was placed instead of the useful chapters.

my biggest issue on ALL of my "bigger than 1242cc" was alternator related.., Haynes just said buy a new unit:bang:

I've kept all my Regata , Uno Mk1 .etc manuals because they actually have the useful stuff still in them

Charlie

Presume you are talking about the Porter manual,It is the Punto one! Agree entirely about not repairing but replacing, this is just so common now, then again we(at least most people) have lost the ability to fix things, that's what happens as a society gets more affluent, the throw away age. I get a kick out of trying to fix things, more often than not successfully. I've seen many posts here on the Fiat forum related to batteries and alternators, a lot of people seem to think it's a process of renewal till it's fixed! We still have here in Ireland (Limerick anyway) a few very good auto electricians who recondition alternators and starters, at least you are getting a decent original product renewed with genuine parts, I had to renew the alternator on my G Punto 2 years ago, the housing had cracked, a common problem, the new one lasted a week before the rectifier died, I made sure the replacement was a decent make this time! It's Forums like this that can keep the information on repairs flowing, I always say that I don't own the info, just the custodian of it, and am delighted to pass on my limited knowledge to others for the benefit of all.

The reason I want a manual is because A. It'll be helpful to have in general as I know nothing about the 128 engine and B. I have suspicions the timing is ever so slightly out, it's hard to tell as I've already said I haven't actually driven it much but the engine feels very flat, sounds alright though. According to the seller its had a recent cambelt change (although there is no paperwork proof of this). So I want to check the timing (which is something I've never done to any car hence the want for a manual)
Maybe it's just that I've been driving a carburetted car for 3 years and I've gotten used to the kind of rough mechanical feel you get with driving compared with something fuel injected. Anyway it's something I want to check.

That engine would be largely covered by e.g. a Haynes Tipo manual, also the Tempra. These would refer more to older incarnations with carbs, distributors etc but the basics like cambelt maintenance, shim measurement and adjustment etc. The engine is also basically that of the (1.4) Punto Turbo.

The last of the Tempras gained the 90HP MPI setup that you have.

Check compressions and valve clearances if you can, also I guess there are injectors to each cylinder to be investigated.

Also the Cat has a limited life and they can collapse internally.

bluejohn125 said:

The engine is also basically that of the (1.4) Punto Turbo.

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Which also is not covered by a haynes, i don't think its even in the porters either. But....... there is ALOT of info online about the GT

bluejohn125 said:

That engine would be largely covered by e.g. a Haynes Tipo manual, also the Tempra. These would refer more to older incarnations with carbs, distributors etc but the basics like cambelt maintenance, shim measurement and adjustment etc. The engine is also basically that of the (1.4) Punto Turbo.

The last of the Tempras gained the 90HP MPI setup that you have.

Check compressions and valve clearances if you can, also I guess there are injectors to each cylinder to be investigated.

Also the Cat has a limited life and they can collapse internally.

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Thanks for info, I've already been directed by some members on where to get the information I require. Think the cat is alright as on last MOT it's well under the limit, unless they can start to fail without showing up on emissions tests?

Update:

Was raining almost all weekend so didn't get much done, fortunately it stopped for this afternoon so got some bits sorted.

Bad Bits / To-do List
Major

• Roof Leaks around rear window, stiching has come apart in the corners.
• Thermostat maybe gone, on the drive home didn't get much above 70C in an hours driving.
• Bonnet and boot floor has rust issues that need addressing.

Minor

• Crack/chip in offside headlight.
• Chips in windscreen -I'm assuming this has been repaired/filled
• No headlight indicator on dash.
• Key falling apart -Fixed
  [*]Both door locks are hard to operate. -Passenger side Fixed
• Electric windows struggle to close themselves. -Passenger side Fixed
• Seat-belts don't retract properly.
• Bonnet release has come off -Fixed

Cosmetic

• Crack in rear bumper + rear bumper support rusted through.
• Dents everywhere...
• Small scratches on doors (been bashed into other cars by the looks)
• Touch up chipped paint.

So got some bits on the passenger side sorted, took the door card off and greased the window mechanism which has bought it up to an acceptable speed.
Used some graphite lock lubricant in the passenger side door lock and its free'd up nicely. Hopefully I'll repeat both processes on the drivers side tomorrow.
Whilst I had the door card off I had a look at the speakers, original Fiat with the manufacture date on them too, all points to this car not being messed with in its life I mean the speakers sound absolutely awful even at low volumes but at least they're still there



I took the tape off my key over the weekend as it was disgusting, at first I couldn't tell why it'd ever been stuck on, the key didn't fall apart or even feel loose. Fast forward 2 days and I use it to unlock the door... the force of turning the lock caused the keys casing to entirely split open :bang:, well it's obvious it has been split open before and repaired and the repair has failed (this was probably due to how stiff the locks have become). So I had to repair the key again :shakehead:





I used some high grade superglue and properly stuck the outer casing back together, let it set and then replaced the innards, whilst I was there I tried to diagnose why the remote locking doesn't work, the PCB looks undamaged, the light lights up bright when the button is pressed so I don't think the key is at fault.



For once went out in the actual dark, confirmed the dash lights up when the headlights are switched on so must just be the sidelight/headlight bulb in the instrument cluster, will do that tomorrow too.





Got some silica gel for now to absorb the damp in the car from the roof leak, it's worked well so far, the boot carpet is dry to the touch after just one day of the gel being there



So as always fix a bunch of things and you find another problem to add to the list. My original radio stays lit when the car is off, locked everything.



If I turn the radio on and off again etc it doesn't change, when you switch the radio off the text/numbers on the display go but the screen stays lit Any ideas?

Aliens!........ sounds like a problem with the radio itself.

The seat belt problem is often fixed by giving the belts a good clean in warm soapy water to remove years of grease and dirt, and a little emery paper to sand the loop at the top to remove the grease and dirt from there as it builds up on the loop and makes everything stick together.

Very simple fix and plenty of videos on YouTube about it !

renaultvation said:

I was interested in your post to Chesh about the Bertone number as ours was first registered in August 1994 and would appear to build number 004793. How close it that to yours?

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I kept forgetting to do this! So for interests sake here you go, it's hard to read in the picture but it's number 002580, so about 2000 cars before yours.



So got some goodies.



(and some others that aren't pictured as they came over the following days). Been doing a few bits and pieces this week, solar battery maintainer which will stop the battery from just dying from not being driven often.

Removed the instrument panel and swapped one of the working bulbs (in my case the indicator bulb) to the sidelight/headlight indicator bulb to check its not a wiring thing,



Success!
So the bulb is a little twist fit thing and all it says on it is 'Toshiba V-2' Googling brings up bulbs that look like it and some that don't. I can only find them for sale in 1 listing on eBay and it's quite expensive, anyone know where I can get some?

Moved onto treating the surface rust, used some jenolite which has worked very well, sprayed some primer over it once it had set and then applied some underseal to it. I've only done my boot floor, I planned to do some other areas of the bodywork but I'm scared of ruining the surrounding paint so I'm going to leave it for now until I can attempt to make the bodywork and paintwork better than its awful state as it stands...

Moved onto investigating the engine more, fuel pump is loud when standing outside the car with it idling, kinda whining type noise, hoping I shouldn't be concerned about this...
Checked spark plugs today, all look good and are still shiny so I'm guessing they've been replaced recently. Engine is generally covered in oil everywhere so I'm going to clean it, the oil down the block does appear to have come from the cam cover however the bolts for the cam cover are delightfully shiny and the oil on the engine is very dried on so I'm hoping that means the gasket was changed also. However the sump....



:yuck: Blergh! Damp oil definitely hanging around the sump, looks to be the gasket...

EDIT: Forgot to mention, my radio staying lit problem has sorted itself out, was doing it for about two days and then just stopped and hasn't done it since, although I haven't turned the radio back on since either... :chin:

Did you get my email?

Engine and sump need some TLC!

FRAM filters... total crap!!!

bluejohn125 said:

Engine and sump need some TLC!

FRAM filters... total crap!!!

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does it rly matter which filter you use on an old car/engine

What's wrong with FRAM filters? Never had a problem with them

Go onto Youtube, there are a few videos of Americans cutting open different filter brands and comparing the quality of materials, filter, valves etc. FRAM are a shockingly low standard.

Flisko... your attitude to maintainance of old cars / engines explains why your failed Punto engine is such a mess... the previous owners didn't care. If you spend time and money repairing it properly you would be more concerned about oil and filter quality. If you just want something that runs OK for a short time then you can do a minimum cost quick fix and use the cheapest of everything...

I always use genuine ones on mine (5984044) you can still find those old stocks on ebay.

check out my old thread about this:

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto/344767-pn71753738-oil-filter-suitable-mk1-2.html

digger58 said:

Did you get my email?

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Yep Was very helpful thank you!

bluejohn125 said:

Engine and sump need some TLC!

FRAM filters... total crap!!!

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Just the filter that came with the car. As I've mentioned I'm going to be doing a full service on the car and spark plugs have already been changed, oil and filter will probably be next on my list, want to get the engine cleaned up first though so I can see where I have any potential oil leaks. The car isn't being used and is on SORN at the moment so the engine isn't being hurt by that FRAM filter, although I didn't know the brand was so terrible, I usually buy OEM ones