im Axle Specialists
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Panda (Classic) My Sisley, Panda 4x4 - division north

Overview Gallery Discussion

Introduction

As mentioned before, I'm starting new thread for my recent purchease.
Bought it from forum user, deposit was place without seeing the car first, went all the way down south with rest of the cash and A-frame in boot.

First summary of the car is ( 1 is very poor, 10 is perfect):

  • Originality - 6,
  • Bodywork - 7,
  • Engine - 6,
  • Gearbox - 5,
  • Interior - 5,
  • Structural rust - 8,
  • Visible rust - 8,
  • Previous owners maintain - 7
Plan for the car is to keep it road worthy and in good mechanical nick, join Panda 4x4 UK club and have some play with other Northern forum members.

As it is now, I'm not willing to make any statement what needs to be done as I had only spend about 2h last week by checking and looking at the car in more details way.

That is my bigger worry for now - bloody milky coolant and a bit of mayo under the oil cap.

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How can I confirm my head gasket theory not having coolant presure test kit???
@CLS - your not the only one - aparently it is bloody hard to buy cheepo 4x4 without blown thru head gasket.

The rest of the engine bay seems to be fine,
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Did somebody in here mentioned a black silicone gunk as a fast repair?
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Interior as you can expect from car been used on a farm
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Not the geniune steering wheel and speedo, which does not make much difference to me at all. Roofrack presence evidence
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I dont want to know how this happened.
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Filler pipe still untouched, what sort of DIY protections do you recon?
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And time for the bad boy
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Is that gap between the propshaft and diff is normall?
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Dear FFCP section members, any comments, suggestions and observation are more than welcome, especcialy regards the 4x4 drive train i.e. leaks etc.
Click to expand...
AndyPanda4x4 said:
Epic work Jacob, what are your plans for the back then?

Looking forward to the NYM Panday, let's get a date sorted!
Click to expand...



As the rear shocks are non standard there is still some down travel (40mm)available while axle is in max down position. I've already removed some material from top and bottom edge of bottom shock eyelet so they look more like <> rather than [].


It looks that currently the rear axle flex is restricted by the longitudinal flex of the actual leaf springs itself. To protect the springs from getting to much internal stress and potentially causing premature material fatigue and protect the shackle bushes from wearing out quicker at the same time that best is to look into dual action shackles (two axle pivot capability) with wet bolts.


For now I'll enjoy the car as is.


The NY Panday dates will be suggested shortly.
 
As always nice days of laning does bring some beautifull photos and damage.
Haven't seen a pretty big square stone/rock for tyre grabed it by few mill and did slide down with impact causing rim to hit that rock. Rims are solid as hell so only the lip was deformed, no air leaks.

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Rule number 1 - do not use your panda offroad without prop's support plate guard.
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Bearings and rubber mounts are intact, some reinforsment work will take place surely.
 
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You have a bit wide 5x13 rims to the 155/70 tyres, very ok for the tarmac,but for the offroad purposes they are more prone to damage. I use 4.5 and 165/80, it looks like baloon, but the rim is more "hidden" by the tyre wall.

Few blows with the hammer and prop's support plate 'll look like new;) I wonder how you'll strenghten yours, mine looks 1.5kg heavier now:D

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Bartpanda said:
You have a bit wide 5x13 rims to the 155/70 tyres, very ok for the tarmac,but for the offroad purposes they are more prone to damage. I use 4.5 and 165/80, it looks like baloon, but the rim is more "hidden" by the tyre wall.

Few blows with the hammer and prop's support plate 'll look like new;) I wonder how you'll strenghten yours, mine looks 1.5kg heavier now:D
Click to expand...


Correct!

For next set of tyres I'll consider 165/70.
I've looked on getting some of the beadlock reinforcement ring but the proper way of doing that would be to weld it on


http://forum.difflock.com/userpix/2410_1_Beadlock_in_3_bits_1.jpg
http://forum.difflock.com/userpix/2410_2_Bead_Lock_Welded_1.jpg
http://forum.difflock.com/userpix/2410_3_Bead_Lock_Primed_1.jpg



Not was I was actually thinking as to much hassle for now.
Anybody seen some "clip on" rim protectors but other than kerb protectors for low profile tyres?
Seen RIM RINGZ but would they give protection against rocks?

For the support plate I'll use some sections of 16mm OD/ 12mm ID tube as I have some, plus tubes might be acting like a slider if in need.
I must put some thought in to the mounting method as the overall plan is to have the prop shaft front section protected as well.
 
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Seriously though, bead locks are the only way forward. Andrea had them in Italy but I think his were indeed welded. For the while you could let a small amount of PSI out of your tyres, which will increase the wall coverage at the point of contact.

Ideally you should always have a tyre wider than the rim with a thicker or reinforced sidewall for off roading. The Trac tyres have the bead lip on which covers the edge of the rim, do the Fedimas have these too? The problem also with the wider rim is that you must get a wider tyre which can result in more weight and width of the track, which in turn will hinder the ability of the Panda on standard engine and running gear especially in rutted or rocky landscapes. I have learnt that the best way forward is the standard width Fiat 13" wheels with the 145/80 or 155/80 using the power of the standard engine. With an upgraded engine and lifted suspension I think you can safely go wider and/or to a larger rim size.

This is just my opinion.
 
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Would unbalanced front section of prop shaft cause the whole engine to vibrate (left to right) on max acceleration above certain RPM ( 3k+)?
I've took some footage of different places to show, just need to edit it.
Front shafts and rear prop section seem to be fine, did not notice those vibrations while in 4x4 and during same acceleration. I had some play with the differential shim as well as my measurements were indicating that it is a bit to tight.



Does the 4x4's have the exhaust support bracket just behind oil sump fitted as well? Mine had none but the replacement engine came with one, not fitted now.

Prop's swap time?
 
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Disconnect the front prop mount and see if it's that. Could be gearbox rubber mount gone, putting engine out of balance or even a wheel that is unbalanced if you are testing it on a ramp with wheels off the floor? Hadrian's prop is perfect if you want to take that and try it?
 
It was tested on road, have a look at:


0:24, 0:30, 0:41, 0:50


I'll disconnect it today, and see.


[ame]https://youtu.be/8pRcuxTyrfA[/ame]
 
This one shows the end of g/box
There is no vibes at the steering wheel at all.

0:17, 0:26, 0:39, 1:26, 1:38


[ame]https://youtu.be/n6gus1Z2Q8c[/ame]
 
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the whole engine/transm./shaft are wobbling at certain speeds, question is if the shaft wobbles so strong that it transfers the oscilation through gearbox to the whole eng/trans unit? it does not look like, or the rubber eng/trans. mounts are "weak" and are the cause, can not withstand small vibrations etc...
 
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Good news it's not the propshaft.
Bad news - half shaft out job to double check the diff bearing clereance and shims, check shaft itself for binding.
I must double check that the long drive shaft does not rub on the exhaust as looking on those clips they binding only happends of acceleration while front goes up.
 
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Something I noticed with John Freebo's Sisley and also Hadrian was that when the wheel was off the ground the N/S front driveshaft would bind in the diff when as it was rotated, forcing the whole engine and gearbox assembly to move towards the drivers side. That looks exactly like what is happening in the video, makes sense too as it is happening when you accelerate and the suspension extends.

In the case of Johns Sisley it did not cause a problem in normal driving and I don't think Andy has any issues with Hadrian, but your car is probably higher and therefore increases the likelihood of the joint reaching its maximum articulation during driving.
 
Not sure I can see the movement described but it sounds the same motion as the Snatch does under hard acceleration. I have put it down to a sequence of:

1. Camber change near full droop resulting in the torque being concentrated towards the outside edge of the tyre.
2. Tyre edge can't cope and loses traction.
3. Nose drops and weight transfers forwards again.
4. Repeat.

I'd describe at as a medium frequency shake linked to torque output.

Interesting that we're all experiencing something similar. Next time we're together we must do some demonstrations..
 
panda1408 said:
Something I noticed with John Freebo's Sisley and also Hadrian was that when the wheel was off the ground the N/S front driveshaft would bind in the diff when as it was rotated, forcing the whole engine and gearbox assembly to move towards the drivers side. That looks exactly like what is happening in the video, makes sense too as it is happening when you accelerate and the suspension extends.

In the case of Johns Sisley it did not cause a problem in normal driving and I don't think Andy has any issues with Hadrian, but your car is probably higher and therefore increases the likelihood of the joint reaching its maximum articulation during driving.
Click to expand...

Good thinking Freddy, It was noticible with the previous setup as well but not that much.Now mine is 70mm higher so tiny bit lower than Hadrian, the only difference is the lower ball joint which moved the hub towards outside so the tripod is closer to the outer edge of diff race as well. So spacer between hub and cv joint should improve, plus i've got few set of driveshfts as weel just need to check the lenght of the as there is chance that one might be few mm longer.
I will double check the uno shaft fitment as well as it seemed to be 5mm to long.
 
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