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Old 28-06-2016   #16
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Man View Post
... so i will be looking for a cam shaft from out of a 1.9 none turboed BX. as the lobes are much higher than any of the other cams. should allow better airflow into the cylinder.
Be careful with this idea. The turbo has the advantage of the air being pushed in, so the valve lift is different to match. The non-turbo cam might cause the air/fuel charge to be pushed right through into the exhaust, so wasting fuel and giving less power. With the risk of the fuel burning in the exhaust.

If you can, find the valve overlap figures to compare.
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Old 07-07-2016   #17
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

well i have the engine out now. a little bit of damage was done but oh well.. sadly a pipe was left on the engine and has snapped near the heater matrix inside the car. i will figure out what i am going to do with it later on.

here is some pictures and a video!
the video was before the engine came out.














i would not want to kick start it..
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Old 09-07-2016   #18
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Been a while since I've seen those ominous green spheres in an engine bay, reminds me of our old Xantia, shame the new Citroens aren't anything like the old ones
Good luck with the project
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Old 23-07-2016   #19
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Ok.. so that is a replacement engine bought.. (from out of a Fiat Ulysses!) i will need to install a BX's cam shaft to it as it has a pulley on the end of it which drives the hydraulic pump via a belt. the engine already has the Bosch injector pump and injectors so i "could" tune it if i wanted. i also want to swap my old turbo over to this engine.. and all the manifolds. the new engine does not support the top mount intercooler... heh i could i guess get a front mount intercooler.. hehehe for now, i will stick with it as normal.
(if you want to go insane, you can stick HDI engine con rods into the XUD9. when you do that, you can run higher boost pressures and actually get the thing pushing an insane 200bhp! From a indirect injected diesel!!!)

other things i have bought for it are:

all enngine mounts
clutch kit (pressure plate, friction plate and thrust bearing)
inner cv boots (turned out to be cheap multifit ones not as pictured)
ball joint dust covers (enough to redo all of the ones on the car)
Power Steering Rack Boot Gaiter (both sides)
brake pads and discs for front and rear
brand new calipers (both sides, got them really cheap! 8 for one, 24 for the other)
aircon dryer (lol 26 years old!)
rear wheel bearing kit (didnt need it but it was damn cheap at 7!)
CV boot (genuine) (only one, need another.. or 3)
sump gasket
cam/rocker cover gasket
front brake hoses (ABS)
heater matrix (didnt need it but brand new at 4 i could not say no)
cam belt kit (Cam belt, tetioner, idler pulley, and waterpump)

including the car and transport up to Derby this has cost so far: 1260.15

and i have not got onto replacing hydraulic pipes at 40 or more a go. it has loads that need replacing.

i also need to buy oils, "LHM" fluid (for the hydraulic system) and coolant. think i will engine flush the system too. try and free up any slightly blocked oil lines..

bit of bad news though, i think the fuel tank is cracked. i have been getting diesel from scrap cars and sticking it in the BX's tank. ready for when i get the engine in.
sadly it has got to a point where diesel goes in to the filler.. but out through somewhere onto the floor. i dont know if the tank is cracked of if yet another pipe has burst.. only time will tell i guess.

the car keeps filling up with new parts.. but ive not done anything to it yet. hence there being a lack in pictures or a video... soon though maybe next week i will have something.
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Old 23-07-2016   #20
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

good stuff john, looking foward to the work starting on this one...

how does the bx cam profile compare to the donor cars cam, you got the figures at all?
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Old 23-07-2016   #21
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

saw a 45K mile xantia locally for @700 ,
couldn't find this thread last weekend.. - but I suppose that's 2 generations newer anyway..,
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Old 23-07-2016   #22
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Man View Post
bit of bad news though, i think the fuel tank is cracked. i have been getting diesel from scrap cars and sticking it in the BX's tank. ready for when i get the engine in.
sadly it has got to a point where diesel goes in to the filler.. but out through somewhere onto the floor. i dont know if the tank is cracked of if yet another pipe has burst.. only time will tell i guess.
Quite likely to be a rusty tank, if it has a seam along the middle, that is a likely place.

All fuel absorbs a little water. On a warm day, some evaporates off, then condenses onto the inner tank surfaces above the fuel level. Any air above the fuel also contains moisture. Chilly nights can cause a lot of condensation. As well as rusting out the tank from inside, if enough collects together, it drains down and of course falls to the bottom below the fuel, to be drawn into the injection system. A full tank discourages this, which is why many van and lorry fleets have a routine of filling the tanks every night, not just ready for the next day. If any car has been lightly used, or only ever had a few litres put in at a time, the fuel tank deteriorates more quickly. Good luck with finding the leak, hopefully repairable.
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Old 23-07-2016   #23
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

it has a plastic tank on this.. not sure if the mk1 had a metal one though.
yeah i know what you mean. diesel is the worst for moisture. i am happy that it is a plastic tank as rusting goes.. but with it not being metal, i cant weld it
the fuel filter has a water trap on it that can be drained, i plan on replacing the filter so will clean the whole thing out when i do it.

all of the pipes on this thing are mild steel, bar some of the return hydraulic lines and flexible pipes. they are all hard to find, expensive and stupid sizes and use a stupid flare (called an LDS type flare) that takes a rubber seal that naturally starts to leak over time. no good old never fail metal on metal flares on this.
i am looking into converting some of the pipe over to the 3/16 of an inch pipe found on everything. the BX's hydraulic system is pretty low pressure running at about 100 bar (i have only ever seen 50 bar on tests though) i know that 3/16 copper and nickel brake pipe is good for 350 bar. i just need to get some adaptors made up to convert the smaller threaded holes to take the standard M10 unions the 3/16 pipe uses.

i also now have a very nice clean LHM (Hydraulic fluid) tank now there was more water then LHM fluid in it when i got the car! should be a nice lime green colour but this was like clotted cream with a hint of green :/



the cap was quite hard to clean and had loads of gunk in it


now nice and clean inside too

Last edited by Dragon Man; 23-07-2016 at 14:16.
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Old 23-07-2016   #24
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

A plastic tank you'd hope would last the life of the car. Hopefully not split. Good luck with the search.

I understand about the odd sizes of stuff, it is a Citroen thing. I remember years ago, the front bumper on a GS being held on with 7mm diameter bolts, only available from the Citroen dealer at horrendous expense.
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Old 24-07-2016   #25
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
A plastic tank you'd hope would last the life of the car. Hopefully not split. Good luck with the search.

I understand about the odd sizes of stuff, it is a Citroen thing. I remember years ago, the front bumper on a GS being held on with 7mm diameter bolts, only available from the Citroen dealer at horrendous expense.
yeah, citroen love to do that. i am sure they go out of there way to make things last about 5-10 years then fail, just so they can keep getting money from you. those hydraulic lines are proof of that. really, i dont know what they were thinking.. high pressure hydraulics through rubber sealing unions. pretty crazy and expensive.
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Old 26-07-2016   #26
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

ok, so the engine is ready to be collected.. thursday will be the day. i'll clear out Fallouts boot and throw it in the back. when i take it to work ill lift it out with the forklift... i hope

or i can just nick works pickup truck haha. i'm sure they wont mind me.. ahem borrowing it.

when i get the engine to work i will set about stripping all of the un-necessary items from it (which there is not much!) i will replace the 3 parts of the clutch, all the belts and pulleys, and swap around my AC compressor. hmm i may also have to change the intake manifold too.. the one that is on it has an ewwww... EGR. i am looking forward to seeing what the intake manifold looks like inside.. and see how restricted the intake ports now are from it.

ill also swap over turbos too.. thats if i cant find a nice VNT turbo to put on it. im all for economics.

nothing much else to report.. still no new pictures or a video.
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Old 26-07-2016   #27
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

Hoping to have mine back this week... at this rate you will beat me to it!
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Old 30-07-2016   #28
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

hmm i dont think so.. haha i still have my engine out of the car.. in bits!

so here is the plan, the replacement engine is nice, it runs great and for saying the EGR was jammed open and the waste gate on the turbo was seized solid it does not smoke! (always on boost, but all the pressure was leaking through to the exhaust.. sigh.)
yes.. the EGR.. we will get to that in a moment.

picture time first!

so here is my little work place.. 2 engines.. a good tool set and in the background there.. on hell of a lathe (13 inch deck! sadly missing its chuck)


here is the engine. so far i have stripped off all the bits bolted to the sides, taken the belts and pulleys off. it needs vigorous cleaning. i will jetwash it for now and see how that makes it come up. the plan is to paint this Red with engine enamel. (red for a diesel, green for a petrol.. its just how it has to be)




guess which ones are the intake...




pesky oil seal behind the flywheel was leaking... gahh. well may aswell change it as i have it all to bits to paint it



the other end (timing belt end) is ok.. but for what it takes, i will change that too.



oh whats this.. it all came on the Ulysse's engine.. could it be? the magical Bosch pump everyone raves about?? oh my.. so it is!





right.. so now we get back to that EGR thing i was on about earlier.

here we have the 2 center exhaust ports. nice and clean. these are as i took the manifold off. i have not cleaned these.



now for the true horror of the EGR.

these are the clean air intake ports.

cyl1

cyl2

cyl3

cyl4


big deal huh.. well..
in better light:

cyl1

cyl2

cyl3

sadly torch batteries died at cyl4.. but it was just as bad.

ERG.. the creator of "diesel engine cholesterol"
i give you, the grand finally.
this is looking into the intake manifold, at the EGR/clean intake air from turbo mixing point. behold. strangulation at its finest.



even just me blowing through the intake manifold, i was greeted with quite a resistance. its no wonder the waste gate on the turbo was jammed closed! poor thing had to boost all the time to combat this incredible restriction.

needless to say, the manifolds and turbo (if i cant get my hands on a VNT turbo before i get the thing built up) from off the old engine will be going on this replacement engine. the old engine was before the days of EGR's on diesels so the intake manifold and ports are still shiny! even the turbo does not pass oil!

well, till the next update keep rocking

and dont let those EGR pictures give you nightmares!
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Old 30-07-2016   #29
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

I will never understand why cars have EGRs?!?! This is all thats gonna happen, it doesn't matter how well the engine is designed, if it has an EGR this is the end result eventually - and much much quicker if its a diesel. Yeah I get they reduce emissions but c'mon, they are just a silly idea. The only thing I can think of is that because stuff (in general not just cars) seem to just not be built to last anymore that they just don't care that it will fail, even before they fail the inlet is totally minging. Grrr, I could rant for houras about how stupid they are - needless to say, all cars i have owned that have them i have blanked them - mmmm except my 500, will have to look into that and how hard it is to do without an EML or if you can get rid of said EML, figured it out on my old 159 eventually.
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Old 30-07-2016   #30
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Re: John Dragon Man's Citroen BX Diesel Estate

There is a good reason why old Peugeot / Citroen diesels carry on trucking through Africa for hundreds of thousands of miles, but you frequently see modern diesel cars 'rollin coal' down the highstreet smoking like Bob Marley and the Wailers... a well maintained modern diesel engine is efficient, but most people don't maintain them and don't want to pay for someone else to do it properly.

Great to see the progress, you're totally correct - red is the only choice for the paint!

Bosch pump (and matching injectors) are what you need to run on veg oil (I know you know this, but some Fiat people following might not) - the other type is Lucas which is what I have on my 309, sadly just before I got it someone replaced it all with brand new Lucas stuff so no point swapping it out. I've still had 60+ mpg out of it on a run so not too shabby. Now the speedo and mileometer are fixed on the BX I'll be able to see if I can beat that!
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