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Help I might be turning away from a life of Fiat for a Fiesta!

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Help I might be turning away from a life of Fiat for a Fiesta!

Try get a multi-air or t-jet? I had my multi-air punto Evo about 2 months ago and can't get enough of it. Everyone who gets in just thinks it's another slow car, but my god does it shift for a little 1.4! I previously had a MK2B and I debated about getting another fiat as the car felt very lifeless to me I didn't enjoy driving it, but the second I test drove my sporting that was it I had to buy it.
 
The 1.0 turbo Fiesta comes with stop/start.
There has always been a recommendation with any turbo engine, to allow it to idle for 20-30 seconds before turning it off, to allow the turbo to slow down, so that wear/damage is minimised when the engine is turned off and the turbo oil supply stops.

With the Fiesta, the turbo engineer and the stop/start engineer weren't speaking to each other. Frequently, after a quick run, the stop/start will stop the engine immediately. This can't be good for the turbo. Moments later, the hot turbo, which is water cooled, will boil the coolant in it, causing spluttering into the expansion tank, like a kettle boiling. The coolant will of course circulate, but this continues for sometimes several minutes. This can't be good for the turbo either.

If you intend keeping the Fiesta for several years, put the money saved from fuel costs into a savings account for the inevitable new turbo. My school car is due to be replaced in 10 days time, just a year old and 21,000 miles. Good luck to its next owner.
 
JimbbobW1977 said:
Until the multi air unit fails costing a lot of money to put right!
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Not if you have some form of warranty. The only place I've heard of the unit failing is on here, anyone I know who's owned a car with one generally has no problems. I certainly haven't with mine.
 
portland_bill said:
The 1.0 turbo Fiesta comes with stop/start.
There has always been a recommendation with any turbo engine, to allow it to idle for 20-30 seconds before turning it off, to allow the turbo to slow down, so that wear/damage is minimised when the engine is turned off and the turbo oil supply stops.

With the Fiesta, the turbo engineer and the stop/start engineer weren't speaking to each other. Frequently, after a quick run, the stop/start will stop the engine immediately. This can't be good for the turbo. Moments later, the hot turbo, which is water cooled, will boil the coolant in it, causing spluttering into the expansion tank, like a kettle boiling. The coolant will of course circulate, but this continues for sometimes several minutes. This can't be good for the turbo either.

If you intend keeping the Fiesta for several years, put the money saved from fuel costs into a savings account for the inevitable new turbo. My school car is due to be replaced in 10 days time, just a year old and 21,000 miles. Good luck to its next owner.
Click to expand...

Out of interest did Fiat foresee and the same issues when designing the twin air and multi air turbo? Or is it a none issue as no one has ever encountered a Fiat with a stop start system that works?
 
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JimbbobW1977 said:
Ford I believe have realised this and modified the design as far as I'm aware.
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I look forward to finding out in a fortnight or so. I'll try to remember to report back.

StevenRB45 said:
Out of interest did Fiat foresee and the same issues when designing the twin air and multi air turbo? Or is it a none issue as no one has ever encountered a Fiat with a stop start system that works?
Click to expand...

It is likely to be an issue with any turbo engine with stop/start, unless it is programmed to wait a few seconds. This is relevant to petrol and diesel. If as suggested above, Ford have just recognised the potential problem, others may well have done so much earlier.
 
I may be being a bit thick here, so if I am please bear with me. I seem to recall the advice to allow warm up and down of turbos dates from the 80s when they were oil cooled and the bearings weren't as good. As you've mentioned they are now cooled with water instead. As the water pumps are now electric most manufacturers have realised what they can do is run them independently of the engine, so just because the engine is off and the key is out does not mean the cooling circuit for the turbo has shut down. Many cars will run them for several minutes after you've gone about your business to safely cool the turbo down, I would guess use of stop start would do exactly the same.

The original advice stemmed from the limitations of oil cooling, as if you switched a hot turbo off the oil inside it would stop circulating immediately and allow the turbo to overheat, this is now simply not the case. Also turbo diesels have very low exhaust gas temps as well so the chances of cooking a turbo unless the cooling system is knackered in one is slim to none.

That and having had a think about it...if when the engine is off the turbo is hot enough to boil circulating coolant, it would also be hot enough while the engine is on to boil circulating coolant. The only way I could see it happening is if Ford forgot to put in the delay in the cooling system shut down when stop start activates (if so should be a case of a software update to fix), or the cooling system is entirely unfit for purpose.
 
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fiatbravodriver: as Palio suggested, why not look into getting a Grande Punto instead? I traded a mk2b in for a Grande, and I haven't regretted it for a single nanosecond. When I'm driving it, it feels like a very reassuringly safe car, and the 1.4 engine is economical, certainly, I never noticed a difference in economy going from my old 1.2 to my 1.4. Also, Grande Puntos are excellent value for money, far better value than a fiesta, and you'll be getting a considerably nicer car to boot!
 
puntofan01 said:
fiatbravodriver: as Palio suggested, why not look into getting a Grande Punto instead? I traded a mk2b in for a Grande, and I haven't regretted it for a single nanosecond. When I'm driving it, it feels like a very reassuringly safe car, and the 1.4 engine is economical, certainly, I never noticed a difference in economy going from my old 1.2 to my 1.4. Also, Grande Puntos are excellent value for money, far better value than a fiesta, and you'll be getting a considerably nicer car to boot!
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No offence but none of that is true in comparison to the current Fiesta! If you spent time driving a Fiesta you would be won over.....
 
JimbbobW1977 said:
No offence but none of that is true in comparison to the current Fiesta! If you spent time driving a Fiesta you would be won over.....
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No offence, but I doubt that. There is quite literally nothing about my Grande I would want to change, and as has been said before, when the sad day comes for me to trade it in, I will be looking for another Punto. Surely that says a lot?
 
I have driven both models extensively

GP's
1.9 120 Elegenza
1.9 130 Sporting
1.48v Active
1.4 T Jet Sporting
1.4 multiair

Fiestas
1.0 100&125 Eco boosts
1.4 tdci
1.6 ST mountune
1.25 59bhp Style
1.25 83bhp Zetec

The 1.25 I remember was terrible - an early model with little power or grip no equipment and very basic - that was the only one that was not as good to drive as my Elegenza.

However the Fiesta is better built, more reliable, far nicer to drive good value etc.

The GP is merely so-so in a lot of areas and poor on others.

I know you like yours but you have only owned two cars and do low mileage.
 
JimbbobW1977 said:
I have driven both models extensively

GP's
1.9 120 Elegenza
1.9 130 Sporting
1.48v Active
1.4 T Jet Sporting
1.4 multiair

Fiestas
1.0 100&125 Eco boosts
1.4 tdci
1.6 ST mountune
1.25 59bhp Style
1.25 83bhp Zetec

The 1.25 I remember was terrible - an early model with little power or grip no equipment and very basic - that was the only one that was not as good to drive as my Elegenza.

However the Fiesta is better built, more reliable, far nicer to drive good value etc.

The GP is merely so-so in a lot of areas and poor on others.

I know you like yours but you have only owned two cars and do low mileage.
Click to expand...

My Grande is my 3rd car, and my 2nd consecutive Fiat.

I have no desire to own a fiesta, I hate the looks inside and out, I always have done, and always will do. (In fact, I'd rather like to see them banger raced!) The Grande still looks truly superb, whenever I walk past mine on the way to the pub or local shop, I never fail to be amazed by its fantastic design, and am still in disbelief it's actually mine.

With regards to value: I paid £3995 for my Grande Punto Eleganza, and at the same time, the dealer also had a 54 plate fiesta 1.4 "flame". Less kit, not as safe, less economical, more expensive to tax, old and depressingly bland design: yet still £3295. That is what I would call truly poor value!
 
StevenRB45 said:
I may be being a bit thick here, so if I am please bear with me. I seem to recall the advice to allow warm up and down of turbos dates from the 80s when they were oil cooled and the bearings weren't as good. As you've mentioned they are now cooled with water instead. As the water pumps are now electric most manufacturers have realised what they can do is run them independently of the engine, so just because the engine is off and the key is out does not mean the cooling circuit for the turbo has shut down. Many cars will run them for several minutes after you've gone about your business to safely cool the turbo down, I would guess use of stop start would do exactly the same.

The original advice stemmed from the limitations of oil cooling, as if you switched a hot turbo off the oil inside it would stop circulating immediately and allow the turbo to overheat, this is now simply not the case. Also turbo diesels have very low exhaust gas temps as well so the chances of cooking a turbo unless the cooling system is knackered in one is slim to none.

That and having had a think about it...if when the engine is off the turbo is hot enough to boil circulating coolant, it would also be hot enough while the engine is on to boil circulating coolant. The only way I could see it happening is if Ford forgot to put in the delay in the cooling system shut down when stop start activates (if so should be a case of a software update to fix), or the cooling system is entirely unfit for purpose.
Click to expand...

Turbos were not oil cooled.
The need to allow turbos to spin down relates to bearing lubrication, nothing to do with cooling. The turbo shaft runs at 100,000rpm or more. It runs in plain metal bearings with very tight tolerances, requiring a good supply of quality oil. As soon as the engine stops, the oil supply stops. If the turbo is still spinning fast, it can seize, releasing as it cools, but damage is done. If this is allowed to happen often it will not take long for the bearing tolerances to increase enough to allow a little play, then the seals fail. Oil is then passed into the intake or exhaust.
With water cooled turbos, if the cooling fails, like anything else when the cooling fails, damage can occur.
The water pump is driven by the engine on the 1.0 Fiesta, not electric. When the engine stops, so does the pump. Some circulation will continue, slowly due to hot water rising. If the engine has just done a fast run, the residual heat in the turbo boils the coolant in the turbo, which bubbles into the expansion tank like a kettle. This cannot be doing any good.

The 1.0 Fiesta is petrol, not diesel. If I remember my theory from 1974, petrol burns at about 850 degrees, diesel at about 650 degrees. Diesels are considered "cool", but this is relative.
 
I was thinking about this - having just come back from Tenerife I hired an Opel Cascada 1.4 turbo petrol. The engine was working massively to haul it's hefty weight around, now the mountain drive from Los Gigantes to Mt Teide is a beautiful drive I think Mt Teide is the third highest mountain in Europe, however it is a real long haul up to it and you have to stop constantly to admire the viewing points.

The little engine was working overtime spending most of the time going up in 2nd or 3rd gear towards the red line, when stopping the cooling fan would be working over time.

I would dread to think of the turbo on that car in a few years after its done that for 2 or 3 years!
 
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