The 1.6 is Fiat's E-torq engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_E.torQ_engine).
Could be a tax thing or because it can run on ethanol. But it soed seem weird that they don't use the T-jet or a detuned Multiair instead of the 1.6 E-torq.
Where has the 1.4 Multiair Engine Gone?
- Thread starter s130
- Start date
Currently reading:
Where has the 1.4 Multiair Engine Gone?
The 1.6 is Fiat's E-torq engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_E.torQ_engine).
Could be a tax thing or because it can run on ethanol. But it soed seem weird that they don't use the T-jet or a detuned Multiair instead of the 1.6 E-torq.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,579
- Points
- 828
I bought my Grande to replace a mk2b which had developed a power steering fault, and it just had to be Grande next, I'd admired them ever since they were launched. 5 months later, I'm certain I made the correct choice, lol!
There's a lot of unnecessary negativity surrounding Fiat/Alfa on these last few posts. As I've said before, they have not killed the MultiAir engine. It's available in 140 and 170 bhp in the MiTo (the 140 TCT has only been launched a few months ago, up from 135 bhp). They have the 170 MultiAir across the Giulietta range.
They've dropped it from the Punto range, but that's presumably because when it was available in the Punto Evo and 2012 Punto they hardly sold any. It'll be available in 140 and 170 forms in the new 500X and Jeep Renegade. It's also available in the Abarth 500.
The 500L has the T-Jet 120bhp, and no one seems to be buying them - instead opting for the 1.3 diesel (85bhp) and 1.4 16v Petrol (95bhp), so why would they go to the bother of putting a 140 and 170 bhp engine in it?
It makes sense to have a progressive range, and that's what they'll have with:
500 & 500c (1.2 8v 69bhp, TwinAir 85 & 105bhp, 1.3 95 diesel),
500L (1.4 16v 95, TwinAir 105 & 1.4 T-Jet 120, 1.3 85 diesel, 1.6 105 diesel & 1.6 120 diesel)
500X (1.6 petrol, 1.4 MultiAir 140 & 170, and 1.3 95 diesel, 1.6 120 diesel and 2.0 140 diesel)
A few weird choices like putting the 95bhp diesel in the 500 and 500X but only an 85bhp in the 500L. Also not sure why they've used the 1.6 in the 500X and not the T-Jet. Perhaps to keep entry model costs down. But overall, it's a good range. Then there's the Panda models and will be Bravo replacements next year by the look of it.
The Fiat range might look a bit weird at the moment (I agree it's all tiny cars and MPVs) but they've kinda had their work cut out with Jeep/Chrysler and are probably trying to get new models to all the brands, not just one - hence Maserati Ghibli, Fiat 500L and soon 500X, Alfa 4C, Jeep Cherokee & Renegade. There's all the realignment of factories and platforms so that they work across brands too.
There's no point having all the brands covering all the different markets. It makes sense that Fiat sell small cars/MPVs/SUVs, Alfa does the more traditional and sporty range, Jeep the 4x4's and Chrysler, urm, well, yeah, God knows - I don't really see the point in Chrysler outside of the USA. So it might be that a model you used to buy from Fiat is now under the Alfa umbrella - it's all the same company, just a different badge.
They've dropped it from the Punto range, but that's presumably because when it was available in the Punto Evo and 2012 Punto they hardly sold any. It'll be available in 140 and 170 forms in the new 500X and Jeep Renegade. It's also available in the Abarth 500.
The 500L has the T-Jet 120bhp, and no one seems to be buying them - instead opting for the 1.3 diesel (85bhp) and 1.4 16v Petrol (95bhp), so why would they go to the bother of putting a 140 and 170 bhp engine in it?
It makes sense to have a progressive range, and that's what they'll have with:
500 & 500c (1.2 8v 69bhp, TwinAir 85 & 105bhp, 1.3 95 diesel),
500L (1.4 16v 95, TwinAir 105 & 1.4 T-Jet 120, 1.3 85 diesel, 1.6 105 diesel & 1.6 120 diesel)
500X (1.6 petrol, 1.4 MultiAir 140 & 170, and 1.3 95 diesel, 1.6 120 diesel and 2.0 140 diesel)
A few weird choices like putting the 95bhp diesel in the 500 and 500X but only an 85bhp in the 500L. Also not sure why they've used the 1.6 in the 500X and not the T-Jet. Perhaps to keep entry model costs down. But overall, it's a good range. Then there's the Panda models and will be Bravo replacements next year by the look of it.
The Fiat range might look a bit weird at the moment (I agree it's all tiny cars and MPVs) but they've kinda had their work cut out with Jeep/Chrysler and are probably trying to get new models to all the brands, not just one - hence Maserati Ghibli, Fiat 500L and soon 500X, Alfa 4C, Jeep Cherokee & Renegade. There's all the realignment of factories and platforms so that they work across brands too.
There's no point having all the brands covering all the different markets. It makes sense that Fiat sell small cars/MPVs/SUVs, Alfa does the more traditional and sporty range, Jeep the 4x4's and Chrysler, urm, well, yeah, God knows - I don't really see the point in Chrysler outside of the USA. So it might be that a model you used to buy from Fiat is now under the Alfa umbrella - it's all the same company, just a different badge.
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,579
- Points
- 828
Apparently, they've dropped the Chrysler badged Lancia models in this country. What's actually going to happen with regards to a Punto replacement?
From my understanding now of this 1.6 it's essentially a upgraded version of the same engine that was in the first generation of the current mini?
The Lancia (Chrysler) Delta has gone. I think you could probably count on both hands how many people bought them new - just too expensive for a model launched in the UK at the tail end of its life cycle. However it's no longer being made at all as far as I know, because the production lines it (and the Bravo) came down are the ones being modernised ready for the new Alfa 159-replacement. http://www.autoedizione.com/cassino-takes-first-step-towards-production-alfa-romeo-giulia/
The Ypsilon is still on sale though, it's just been refreshed, with trim levels changing from S, SE & Limited to Silver, Gold & Platinum. It's currently got some pretty strong offers on it too:
http://www.chrysler.co.uk/offers/yp...i-now-with-only-139-customer-deposit-required
Quite what's going to happen with Chrysler in the UK generally though, I'm not sure. They don't seem to sell any new 300C's, and don't shift massive amounts of the other models. It'd make sense to wait till the Jeep range is sorted & then pull Chrysler in the UK (I thought Lancia was going from most of Europe anyway) - they're not going to lose many sales by not having the Voyager & 300C, and can always sell the Ypsilon as a Lancia in Fiat showrooms, as a cut price option.
The Punto replacement is planned for the next 12/18 months I think. It was going to be another 500 model, but it seems to look like it's not going to be badged 500 now, judging by comments that the 500X is the last 500 model. Fiat's investor plan also doesn't show it as a 500 model.
Yes it would appear that's the case, as Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT) bought the plant that was formerly a joint venture between Chrysler & Rover Group (BMW)
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritec_engine"]Tritec engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@<title>Tritec engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</title>@@AMEPARAM@@Tritec engine[/ame]
Weird how things do the rounds like this! Also curious how FPT bought the plant off DaimlerChrysler in 2008, before taking over Chrysler-Jeep.
Last edited:
I am now a very happy owner of a 2013 MultiAir 105 Punto Lounge. It has all the extras that I think they offer, fully kitted out. Its a joy to drive and brilliant on the motorway. I bought it from the Midlands and drove it back to Southampton yesterday in the awful weather.
I sold my MX5 back to the dealer I bought it from for £10,000. Pretty much what I paid for it at the start of the summer. I paid £7500 for the Punto. An absolute bargain I think for a 2013 car with 9000 miles on ex demo.
It sounds just like the 1.4 8v but has just a bit more poke and capability on the motorway, especially with 6 speed box. Fuel economy is on pretty much on par, I managed 49.7 mpg average according the computer on my drive home sticking to 70mph.
I sold my MX5 back to the dealer I bought it from for £10,000. Pretty much what I paid for it at the start of the summer. I paid £7500 for the Punto. An absolute bargain I think for a 2013 car with 9000 miles on ex demo.
It sounds just like the 1.4 8v but has just a bit more poke and capability on the motorway, especially with 6 speed box. Fuel economy is on pretty much on par, I managed 49.7 mpg average according the computer on my drive home sticking to 70mph.
Last edited:
OP
OP
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2011
- Messages
- 165
- Points
- 43
Now that I've read the thread, I'd just like to leave this here. The starting page of the Nuova Punto configurator for Slovenia... it's pathetic.
now that i've read the thread, i'd just like to leave this here. The starting page of the nuova punto configurator for slovenia... It's pathetic.
LPG
Cool
Now that I've read the thread, I'd just like to leave this here. The starting page of the Nuova Punto configurator for Slovenia... it's pathetic.
Funny how different the choices are from country to country.
In Denmark we can order the Punto with either a 1.2 67hp (Pop), a Twinair 100hp (Pop, Popstar or Lounge) or a 1.3 Multijet 80hp (Popstar or Lounge).
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2011
- Messages
- 165
- Points
- 43
And this is the starting page... no estate, no Bravo, no nothing. I love the brand and the FLAR group to death, but this? I can't even... Qubo, Sedici? Seriously? 10 versions of the 500?
Not to mention the elephant in the room, the engines. It's not even worth taking screenshots.
I can't actually buy an Abarth in my country officially. A new one. And we're goddamn neighbours of the country that makes them. I spot an Abarth anything on our top car sales site and I'm like whoa. Autoscout has a dedicated search term for them.
ATM it's dismal to behold the state of affairs.
Not to mention the elephant in the room, the engines. It's not even worth taking screenshots.
I can't actually buy an Abarth in my country officially. A new one. And we're goddamn neighbours of the country that makes them. I spot an Abarth anything on our top car sales site and I'm like whoa. Autoscout has a dedicated search term for them.
ATM it's dismal to behold the state of affairs.
Just want to add that the Alfa Giulietta is getting the 1.4 Multiair in a 150bhp version.
So it's not completely gone yet ;-)
So it's not completely gone yet ;-)
OP
OP
Good to know.
Fiat Group often do themselves an injustice by leaving the punters to figure out what the ? is going on. Also the discontinuity of the 1.4 MultiAir product line also adds more confusion and questions than it should for ongoing brand and model continuity and viability.
The Italians may be kings of engineering and design but they certainly fall very far short of the mark in "marketing continuity" in many (not all as 500 is an exception) model areas.
Fiat Group often do themselves an injustice by leaving the punters to figure out what the ? is going on. Also the discontinuity of the 1.4 MultiAir product line also adds more confusion and questions than it should for ongoing brand and model continuity and viability.
The Italians may be kings of engineering and design but they certainly fall very far short of the mark in "marketing continuity" in many (not all as 500 is an exception) model areas.
Certainly not king of engineering going by the amount of design flaws I had in my GP
It looks like a MultiAir relaunch is coming in the 500X but now 2nd generation MultiAir 2. A good looking car as well from the photos... It seems the reviewers choice is the 2WD 134hp MultiAir too.
OP
OP
Yes the Multiair is coming back.......
Now I was dreaming....no, reasoning last night whilst trying to get to sleep.
The limited 500 introduction "Opening" models of the 500X in the UK are split (roughly) 300 to the City Pop Star Model and 200 to the 4x4 model.
City = Multiair - 2 wheel drive = £17,595 + £1,725 of extras free
4x4 = 1.9 Mulitijet = 4 wheel drive AUTO = £25,845 + £2850 extra free
WOW - forget the extras but a whopping £8250 price difference for engines that deliver the same BHP, fairly similar economy (taking into account our huge diesel costs) then the 4x4 drive and off road looks are costing a tidy sum of money.
Add the current fury with being miss sold diesels then I'm thinking Fiat may have difficulty is shifting the diesel models.
Add that the high price difference, which is in line with industry/press articles from a while ago where the cost of developing Euro 6 compliant diesel engines is very expensive compared to petrol, plus the added production costs, then I'm think that we may be seeing far more 500Xs sold with the petrol option.
My only issue/questions/feelings with the multiair engine is that after 40+ years of Fiats/petrol engines/carbs/injection etc. and how to diagnose/repair and get them going the multiair is a little bit of a new skills challenge for me. With traditional mechanical valve timing, injection, sparking etc. one can get quite quickly to the point of failure. Multiair presents a new challenge.....especially when out of warranty.
Now I was dreaming....no, reasoning last night whilst trying to get to sleep.
The limited 500 introduction "Opening" models of the 500X in the UK are split (roughly) 300 to the City Pop Star Model and 200 to the 4x4 model.
City = Multiair - 2 wheel drive = £17,595 + £1,725 of extras free
4x4 = 1.9 Mulitijet = 4 wheel drive AUTO = £25,845 + £2850 extra free
WOW - forget the extras but a whopping £8250 price difference for engines that deliver the same BHP, fairly similar economy (taking into account our huge diesel costs) then the 4x4 drive and off road looks are costing a tidy sum of money.
Add the current fury with being miss sold diesels then I'm thinking Fiat may have difficulty is shifting the diesel models.
Add that the high price difference, which is in line with industry/press articles from a while ago where the cost of developing Euro 6 compliant diesel engines is very expensive compared to petrol, plus the added production costs, then I'm think that we may be seeing far more 500Xs sold with the petrol option.
My only issue/questions/feelings with the multiair engine is that after 40+ years of Fiats/petrol engines/carbs/injection etc. and how to diagnose/repair and get them going the multiair is a little bit of a new skills challenge for me. With traditional mechanical valve timing, injection, sparking etc. one can get quite quickly to the point of failure. Multiair presents a new challenge.....especially when out of warranty.
Last edited:
Maybe longer warranty periods should be introduced, haven't there been phases where Bravo's for example were sold with 5 years warranty?
Obviously the terms of that warranty might be limited as they are now past year 2.
I wonder what the changes between the MultiAir and MultiAir 2 are?
It sounds like a serious choice for replacing the Croma Nick?
I've noticed that the U.S. version comes with a 2.4 litre 180bhp Tigershark MultiAir 2 engine. Unless the 2 is a typing error and should be 1?
Nope, just about all country's but UK get the TIGER SHARK, engine.
2400cc non turbo.
