I was given this car by my Grandfather recently and I'm doing some research on the car before I start the restoration. It's a 1958 Fiat Abarth 750 Record Monza. There isn't a wealth of information on the web so I'm looking to find someone who knows more about this car. From what I was told, it was 1 of 100 Record Monza's made in '58. It is 100% complete, and was running prior to being stored in the mid 1980s. If anyone has any info or could point me in the right direction, it would be much appreciated.

You probably need to contact the Abarth museum in Belgium. The web address is www.abarth-gmr.be

It's run by a really nice guy by the name of Guy Moerenhout, what he doesn't know about any of the old (classic) models of Abarth isn't worth knowing.

Wow, As a lover of unrestored/original cars, I would keep it just the way it is. If the inside, gauges, mechanics, and the parts of the body we can't see are as nice as it sounds, it would be a shame to take it apart and restore it. What a great reference car for those who hunger for authenticity. THEY'RE ONLY ORIGINAL ONCE!

Don -

The one that got away!

Abarth 750 Record Monza

Hello,

I have collected and distributed Abarth information for more than thirty years. My study is unofficial (not related in any way to Abarth nor Fiat) and yet is perhaps one of the most serious studies that exists. Although far from complete, I probably have more meaningful data compiled than that which has been retained by Fiat. I've been through a good portion of the Abarth archives that are held by Fiat. Although there is a lot of interesting data, there is a tremendous amount that is missing. I continue to collect data one car at a time ... except when there are those rare document finds that illuminate information on a number of cars. And, I share the data with other owners. I will share with you if you share with me.

This forum will not allow me to share a "1958" file that is already prepared so I will have to convert it into pdf format on another computer and share it later. You will probably wish to know more. As do I.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

Wow, that looks like an amazingly original car. MORE PICTURES PLEASE!!!!

You might want to consider joining the abarthzagato group on yahoo. There's a number of members who own Record Monza's that would love to know more about your car. I'm one!

Re: Abarth 750 Record Monza

iicarJohn said:

Hello,

I have collected and distributed Abarth information for more than thirty years. My study is unofficial (not related in any way to Abarth nor Fiat) and yet is perhaps one of the most serious studies that exists. Although far from complete, I probably have more meaningful data compiled than that which has been retained by Fiat. I've been through a good portion of the Abarth archives that are held by Fiat. Although there is a lot of interesting data, there is a tremendous amount that is missing. I continue to collect data one car at a time ... except when there are those rare document finds that illuminate information on a number of cars. And, I share the data with other owners. I will share with you if you share with me.

This forum will not allow me to share a "1958" file that is already prepared so I will have to convert it into pdf format on another computer and share it later. You will probably wish to know more. As do I.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

Click to expand...

I'd be happy to share any information I have as well as possibly learn a little more about this specific model. Do we have any solid numbers on cars produced with the horizontal taillights versus vertical? Or any production numbers at all? After some research I have determined that it is in fact a 1960 and was (for some reason) titled as a 1958.

UPDATE: I included some updated photos of the ongoing restoration. If the car would have been in better shape I would have decided to just fix it up but, as you all probably know, these cars were not built to last. There was rampant corrosion on the frame where the aluminum body is pinched on to a steel frame as well as several rust problem areas. I made the decision to go ahead and fully strip the car and rebuild it using as many original parts as possible. I felt confident this was what this car needed to bring it up-to-date and the restoration is coming along nicely.

I now know this little Fiat was originally red with a black or blue vinyl interior. Chassis # is 513608.

Record Monza, chassis 100*513608

Hello BoneMaro,


Thank you for sharing.


This car exists on a Zagato ledger that was shared with me in the 1980's or early 1990's. It is basic data but shows that your car was indeed built 1958. The data is:


Chassis 513608
Engine (not reported)
"Tipo B" (Record Monza style)
Zagato build #218
ledger date: 29 October 1958


We do not know if the ledger date is consistently reporting the date that the chassis arrived at Zagato or if it is nearer the date that the bodied car was sent back to Abarth. It could also be an invoice date from a time when it neared completion. Some educated guessing can be done about some examples but I do not know that the "ledger date" data was all recorded in the same way.


There are no production figures available for any of the Abarth cars based on the Fiat 600 platform. In the case of the "horizontal" tail light version, it may be possible to use the data we have to make an educated guess. I might have to gather a bit more data to see if it can be made as precise as possible, but there would still be an element of doubt involved.


I would like to add the engine number, any data from the ID plate (Fiat or Abarth?) and any history you know to my research files. It would even be nice to confirm that the Zagato build number appears on some parts of the car's body trim and upholstery. History and license plate data (or modifications that set the car a bit apart from others) can all result in a connection to earlier history that may or may not be generally of interest. In the end, any history that becomes identified for a specific car removes that data from consideration for other cars that might also seem like possible contenders for that history.


Thanks again,


John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

Re: Record Monza, chassis 100*513608

iicarJohn said:

This car exists on a Zagato ledger that was shared with me in the 1980's or early 1990's. It is basic data but shows that your car was indeed built 1958. The data is:


Chassis 513608
Engine (not reported)
"Tipo B" (Record Monza style)
Zagato build 218
ledger date: 29 October 1958

Click to expand...

So then would you venture to say it is a 1958?

Is this ledger possibly in PDF form and, if so, could you e-mail me any of it? I would love it for my records. Here are photos of some of the numbers I have found on the car:




This is the serial number of the motor that was installed in the car:




I had no idea that trim pieces were numbered, I'm going to see what I can find.

I just checked all the trim pieces and it looks like this is car #218 .





Also, my uncle explained that prior to my grandfather buying the car in the early 60's it was raced at the Willow Springs Raceway and was also featured in a magazine around that time. It probably would have been painted red back then.

Abarth 750 RM 513608

Thank you BoneMaro!


This is all good stuff. Yes, I would say the car was built 1958. I suspect the ledger date was close to the completion date ... as far as Zagato's work was concerned, but again, this is uncertain. The car may very well have been first sold in 1959, but your title/registration paperwork may imply otherwise?


Unfortunately, I did not receive a copy of the original Zagato ledger itself. It is clear that the ledger was not complete in any case. What I received was a dot-matrix printout prepared by Marco Antonetto, a pen-pal friend in Switzerland who was assisting with organizing the Zagato Register (at Zagato) in the early 1990's. We exchanged lots of data but I never received any primary copies. All I have is the data. I may have tossed the dot-matrix printouts after entering the data into my first computer? I entered the data in such a way that the source is recognizable to me.


I have also a photocopy of a handwritten Abarth ledger that appears to describe cars that were given "Certificates of Origin" in Italy. This was done only for cars that were sold for use in Italy. That's not to say that some cars may not have been exported immediately or almost immediately in any case, but the important detail is that your car is not on the list. This implies that the car was exported from new and the most likely destination was the USA, particularly since the car seems to have appeared in California while still almost new ... if not new.


So, on to what you have shared ...
The Abarth ID plate appears likely to be the original. It tells us the Telaio (chassis) number and the Motore (engine) number that was fitted when first sold. The engine with the car now is not the original and dates probably from 1959 or 1960.


The Fiat ID plate has nothing to do with your car as far as its origins go. It seems most likely that the plate is from a Fiat 600 rather than an Abarth variation, but if it were from an Abarth, it would most likely have been a "Double Bubble". If there is anything scratched on the backside, there may be a hint in that? Please check the Abarth ID plate as well, for something that might be scratched there. I am not expecting you to find anything, but you don't know unless you look.


Finding the trim number in three places (and probably more) is a good indication that we are looking at the car that was described as of 1958 in the Zagato ledger.


I will now look to find some additional information to keep you awake wondering ...


John

Re: Abarth 750 RM 513608

A red car racing in Southern California ...


There were a few of them. I have entered some data from some racing programs into the computer but there is more to do. The nice thing about some of the racing programs of that time (in that area) is that the car color was often listed. Hence, we know that, as of 1960, there were some red, white, blue, and silver Abarth cars in use in California for racing purposes.


There were three cars entered at Willow during January of 1960. They were all blue. Are you certain there is no lingering trace of another color that was used in addition to the red that you believe is original?


If you can pin down the date of your grandfather's acquisition, it will help me do a focused search while looking for possibilities. Along with the date of purchase, it would be nice to know your grandfather's name and also if there is any chance that the former owner's name might be remembered if it were brought up as a possibility.


Entry lists often do not differentiate between the Double Bubble and the Record Monza, but we may be able to identify some of the cars with certain owners as having been Double Bubble and those names will be moved down the list as possible owners. I will hesitate to eliminate them as it is always possible that a driver moved from a Double Bubble into a Record Monza at some point ... or vice-versa.


It turns out that I have three photos in my computer that are tagged with your nickname, "BoneMaro". They show a black car with a blue metallic stripe down the middle. I presume it is the same car?


More to follow,


John

Re: Abarth 750 RM 513608

My grandfather's name was Gerald (sometimes Jerry or Gerry) Teal. I have a letter from him to a magazine inquiring about "an early 60's sports car magazine with an article about a Zagato bodied Fiat Abarth which traveled from California to Sebring, raced, and drove back to California. The car in reference was a red 1960 Record Monza. It may have been towing a small trailer with a spare engine."

According to my grandfather this was his Abarth before he purchased the car.

I also have a letter attached to a windshield decal that says "Dear Jerry, enclosed you will find the serialized Abarth Register windshield emblem for your car, number 32."

I also have a letter from State Farm Insurance showing a policy period date of 9-18-1967 to 12-10-1967. It looks like a renewal letter so I believe he had it insured prior to that. Also, all of the paperwork shows the serial number as "566954" (the motor number) instead of the chassis number.

I looked behind the data plates and there is nothing to be seen. The Fiat plate was with a bunch of random emblems/plates so I don't believe it has anything to do with this car.

This is great information to have, I'll do some more digging and see if I can't find more paperwork.

Re: Abarth 750 RM 513608

iicarJohn said:

It turns out that I have three photos in my computer that are tagged with your nickname, "BoneMaro". They show a black car with a blue metallic stripe down the middle. I presume it is the same car?

Click to expand...

Yes, that's the one. It was actually a dark blue with a single light blue center stripe.

Abarth 750 Record Monza 513608

Hello BoneMaro,


This is all good stuff! Once again!


I have a vague recollection of a story about a car driven from California to Sebring and back. I'll look for it.


The note about the Abarth Register also makes sense. Member #32 is an early one.


Use of the engine number as the VIN is not uncommon, particularly in California during that time period. You should look through your stack of spare engines (if you have such a "stack") to see if the original engine might still exist within reach. Eventually, it will add value to the car if it accompanies it in a sale. I am not pressuring you at all. It is merely advice for the long term. If you have the original engine, do what you can to set all of the original parts with it as "untouchables" even if you do not use them for your current restoration.


Attached is a pdf file of an extract from my listings that describe what we know of the Record Monza examples built 1958 ... and into early 1959 on 1958-origin chassis from Fiat. I don't pretend it is complete nor that there is no chance for error.


I should also mention that your Abarth ID plate, when it reports "Tipo 750", implies that the car was delivered with a push-rod engine rather than a bialbero (twin-cam). This is an important distinction. In a way, it makes the "horizontal tail light" feature even rarer for each of the mechanical versions, as there will be a total count of each variety that is lower than if they were all lumped together. In the end, I prefer the concept that says, "My car is unique, but it is part of a limited series of really cool cars!".


Enjoy!


John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

Abarth 750

Here is an edited page from the book I published 1994 showing 513608 in a larger context with other cars that are also "deriv. Fiat 600". This listing can be assumed to be far less complete than even the focused "Record Monza 1958" listing with regards to actual production numbers. Each listing is a progress report of a lengthy study. This one dates from more than twenty years ago and this page's equivalent will be quite different when a new edition of "The Italian Car Registry" is prepared. One of these days!


John

Re: Abarth 750

iicarJohn said:

Here is an edited page from the book I published 1994 showing 513608 in a larger context with other cars that are also "deriv. Fiat 600". This listing can be assumed to be far less complete than even the focused "Record Monza 1958" listing with regards to actual production numbers. Each listing is a progress report of a lengthy study. This one dates from more than twenty years ago and this page's equivalent will be quite different when a new edition of "The Italian Car Registry" is prepared. One of these days!


John

Click to expand...

Well I would be interested in the current registry if you have any copies laying around as well as the new edition when the time comes.