The way I see customer surveys (this is just my opinion) is the following.

If someone, for example, buys a car of supposed quality VW/Merc/BMW etc. and it turns out to be an unreliable heap of junk, they aren't going to shout that they were taken in by the 'reputations' and then completely shafted by the whole car experience, so don't want to lose face, whereas if they buy a car from a manufacturer with a past history of problems (e.g. Fiat/alfa) then they'll shout about the smallest things that go wrong. But if that car is faultless then not much will be said. (I'm talking about the cars, not the dealers)

I think what I'm trying to say is that, when it comes to Fiat, People rarely praise, but they are happy to put the boot in. (In surveys obviously, not on the Forum!!)

Whereas with other makes it's the other way, People love to praise, but rarely put the boot in (even if it's highly deserved)

These are just my thoughts anyway.

Also I tend to rank reliability surveys by people like car hire or lease firms over customer surveys, because these have more credibility (in my view) as the cars are a key part of the business success.

Vin

there's no argueing that fiats are reliable. they simply arent. ask any half decent mechanic.
people buy fiats cos theyre cheap, fun and well equipped.

a recent survey based only on breakdowns says that cars can be categorised in four segments, excellent, good, average, and poor.
(ALphabetical)
Excellent:
Honda
Hyundai
Lexus
Mazda
Suzuki
Toyota

Good:
Daihatsu
Ford
Nissan
Subaru

Average:
Alfa Romeo
Jaguar
Jeep
Kia
Mercedes
MG
Mitsubishi
Porsche
Proton
Seat
Skoda
Volvo

Poor:
Audi
BMW
Chrysler
Citroen
Daewoo
FIAT
Land Rover
Peogeot
Renault
Rover
Saab
Vauxhall
Volkswagen

The biggest surprises here are the German makes, once renowned for build quality. are the most unreliable.
If you want a car that doesn't break down, buy Japanese.

My punto never had one thing wrong with it while i had it excellent little car i love it. The stilo has been good as gold as well since i had it, i have no compliants about fiat at the moment but then i havn't had to use a dealer yet

Mad Colm i dunno where you get these facts from but to put porsche in average is slightly wrong, theyre the only company that boast that 2/3 of all their cars ever produced is still on the road and Saabs are very good build quality as well a lot better than the german equivelent. Why do you come on here when you dont even like FIAT?

I cant believe Saab is down there either!!!! Theyre great cars

Saab, not really good I'm afraid, GF's boss has had hers in fo 6 repairs since new and it's only 6 months old.

I was asked this question on car reliablity and have asked many since then........................"When was the last time you seen a Honda broke down at the side of the road?"

Exactly, never!

Liam

Well my Dads 9-5 hasnt had any problems- except me driving it when I shouldnt

Youre not gonna get any problems with Jap cars- a known fact!

Colm, I've had 13 Fiats over 12 years and only been let down on one occasion by an Uno. Fiats are unquestionably reliable if you look after them!

Well my dads had a 95 saloon which never had any problems for the 3 years he had it and now hes got the 95 estate which is over 3 years old and has never had anything wrong with it. Only me scratching it hehe

Theres some surprises indeed and some just reinforce what I see everyday.

I drive a truck, lost count of how many 0000's of miles I do but the most common breakdown I see is Vauxhalls. Usually see at least one a day, it breaks the boredom up trying to guess where the first one will be lol.

Fiat's aren't the most reliable, Certainly from my experience and my friends.
The plus Is you get excellent value, Well equipped cars that depreciate rapidly. I would never had been able to buy and keep my baby if it wasn't fiat.
So thanks Fiat, I owe you one


P.S yes Jap car's are reliable, but they haven't got the soul and passion of an italian. Plus the interiors are sh*t.
Was looking at a couple of other cars before the coop, including a MR2 turbo, 200sx and celica GT4. They were all fast cars but They felt cheap n plasticky. Soon as i drove a coop I knew I had to have it...

...And Nothing has gone wrong yet!! (Frantically touching cyber wood)

You may notice how people complain about Fiat and their problems and straight away say Fiat are crap. Explain to me how my cousin bought the most relaible car according to surveys (Lexus-brand new) and broke down on him due to faulty electronics. I've got a stilo MW JTD for around £16000 and he got a car over £25000. If someone had problems with cars that are known to be S**t from the past people complain like hell!!!! My cousin felt embarrased as he thought he bought the best quality car money can buy. Like others who have problems with these sort of companies known for excellence, they don't complain to the public as much because they feel gutted!!!!!
So I wonder how lexus are top so often in surveys (scam). All I advise people is that all call cars have problems A-Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah, about japanese reliabilty and build quality, read this (boring I know!!) taken from website:
I am the 15-year-old son of parents that own a Mazda RX-8. You can just imagine how happy I was when my persuasive work paid off and my folks agreed to order the 231ps model. You can also probably imagine the look of my mother's face when she had to buy the second bottle of oil, despite the fact that the car had only covered 700 miles. Fuel economy wasn't on the positive side of things either - my mum drives like she has a sore foot, but the car was only returning a pathetic 17mpg. This is a car with a 1.3 engine we're talking about, not a Ferrari Spider with a V8 thumping away under the bonnet!
I can also report on the car's wet bed problem that quite a lot of RX-8 owners are experiencing. Apparently, when you are just about to start up the car, the ECU runs a lightening fast diagnostic check on the car and its engine. No problem there. When it senses that the car will have to perform a cold start, it adds more petrol before you fire up. Sometimes however, it can add slightly too much and flood the engine, a problem exacerbated by the high-pressure injectors. Our car has flooded at least three times now and the Mazda mechanics are becoming part of the family!
Thankfully, there is solution if you ring up your local Mazda garage. The process usually takes around 60-minutes in which the technicians insert a chip to bully the ECU to increase oil input, but decrease petrol injection upon ignition. As soon as the surgery on our vehicle was over, the car felt so much smoother. It also takes a few tenths of the 0-60 time and revs less in fifth and sixth gears.
Being a 15-year-old complete car freak, I don't care too much about fuel consumption and how many trees I should be hugging instead of my dad slamming his foot through the floor. The RX-8 is a fantastic car that goes like stink and it is actually quite practical. Try dropping two gears when overtaking with one - wow!
I just can't wait to learn to drive and get behind the wheel of something a little more powerful and maybe faster still!
Year - 2003
Mileage - 5,000

This is a record of my Mazda RX-8 to date.
Took delivery of the car in early June (2004). After about 100 miles the clutch started slipping, and smoke started coming from the front of the car. The car was towed back to the Mazda dealership the following morning and I was told that the car required a replacement clutch and flywheel as well.
After another 400 miles the same problem occurred. The car was only 18-days-old at this point and had spent several of these at the dealership. I was stunned to be told that the problem was my fault and that they had only replaced it free of charge the first time round as a gesture of goodwill! To say I am disappointed is an understatement and the fact they are not even prepared to look at the clutch to see if it might be a manufacturing fault is staggering.
As far as I'm aware, even if I were to push the clutch to the limits, I'm sure it wouldn't fail within 100 miles!
It's a great car when it's working, but the after sales service is appalling. Can someone please offer me some advice as to what I should do to persuade Mazda it was not my fault?
Year - 2004
Mileage - 500

I broke down in my Mazda RX-8 when returning home from the dealer. Mazda Rescue towed the car away, but it was taken to another garage, which I was not told about. After collecting the car, it broke down again after two days. The fault was the catalytic converter and a new one had to be fitted. The reason given as to why the catalytic converter had broken was that it had been started and stopped over a short-period of time: beware. Petrol consumption is 20mpg with luck. It's got a few gremlins, but we can live with it. Nothing's perfect and this car really gives a buzz when it's driven. If you're worried about the petrol consumption then buy a diesel and bore yourself to death.
Year - 2004
Mileage - 1,000

Having read about the problems experienced by other owners with the fuel consumption of the Mazda RX-8, I measured mine since the last fill up. My car returned a figure of 26 mpg - virtually bang on the stated official combined mpg figure for the car - in fact, one mpg better. This was arrived at with some heavy right-foot use to blast past slow traffic and a good mix of A/B roads and motorways, on which I wasn't always at 70 mph, if you catch my drift.
Given the lower costs of insurance and servicing of the RX-8 compared with other cars that have similar performance, I can't fault the car on cost.
In my opinion, the car lives up to my initial expectations on all counts: performance, cost, quality and comfort. I have never had to call out a repair man yet (touch wood).
Year - 2004
Mileage - 2,500

I am also very disapointed by the (poor) fuel consumption of my RX-8; the best I have got from a tank is 230 miles. The average is 200miles - even when driving on the motorway or with a light right foot. When I thrash the car I get very similar mileage. However it has only used 2 litres of oil. It has started first time 97% of the time, second time for the other 3%.
Everything else is great: great stereo, pretty fast, good looks, half decent boot (better than TT), the fact you can actually get people in the back (try that in a TT) is the winner. Some of the plastics are a bit average, but no worse than the Lexus IS200 I ran previously. Compared with a TT and BMW Coupe the purchase price and insurance costs beat them hands down.
Shame it drinks petrol worse than my boss's Range Rover V8!
Year: 2003
Mileage: 6500
24/08/04
Quick update - for some reason my RX-8 has started giving a regular 280-300 miles to the tank (up from 200 or so when I first got it). I have no idea why since I'm driving it the same way (i.e. with little regard to the environment and OPEC), but the increased mileage is welcome!
The car now starts first time every time and drinks a litre of oil every 2,000 miles or so. Apart from the odd bit of trim rattling, the RX-8 is maturing into a great car which costs so much less than a BMW 330, Audi TT or Porsche Boxter - all of which I have 'raced' in the last month or so.
I still wish I had a VX220, but I guess I will have to wait until my daughter grows up, or my wife leaves me!
Year - 2003
Mileage - 10,000

There seems to be some concern about the high MPG on the Mazda RX-8. However I'm not too concerned about this, as let's face it, performance comes at a price worth paying.
No, my gripe is about the starting problems. The '8' seems to have a flooding problem. When the engine floods it doesn't restart. Even if you wait, it doesn't start. In fact, if you want it to start you have to get an engineer out, or take it to your dealer so they can tinker around with it to make it start. This has happened to me and, according to the lady from Mazda Assistance many other people are having the same problem. It seems to me that a new award-winning engine should start after flooding.
The second question is, why is it flooding? Well, that could be linked to the cold start problem. It seems that the RX-8 also doesn't like the cold. It really grumbles on a cold start and then floods.
At the moment I'm only slightly miffed as the car is such a good drive and looks great. But I have started to wonder how I will feel after the tenth time the man from Mazda has come to start my car?
Year: 2004
Mileage: 2,400

And the award for the longest post goes to.................

I cant read that theres not enough gaps

sorry bout that, I knew it was gonna cause a problem. It got my eyes all up side down as well!!!!

Also mate, what are you doing with a Stilo at 15?

Liam

all makes and models of cars are liable to break down. but it is well known that some brands break down more than others. any mechanic will tell you that japanese cars are far more reliable than any other cars. there'll always be breakdowns, and taking a rotary engined mazda as a norm for all japanese cars it ridiculous!
It only takes a glance at the Honda Civic IMA, Toyota Prius or Honda Insight to see that the Japanese can make reliable, cutting-edge technology, while european manufacturers struggle to build cars that'll reach 100,000 miles without having serious mechanical being necessary. Some might say that the fact that 1990's Carina's and Bluebirds are still being used as minicabs is over-engineering on the part of the Japanese, but if they can build cars capable of inter-galactic mileage, why can't or won't the Europeans?

firstly I don't think that the hybrids are cutting edge what so ever!! Slow, sluggish, poor fuel economy and mainly a plie of S**T!!!! Sorry, thats what I think and if I'm wrong then I don't know why the japanese are making diesels if the hybrids are so good.

Secondly I can recall when my mates car broke down a year ago, he had to call the aa at my house because his Vauxhall was at my place. I can remember asking him if he encounters a lot of japanese and german cars as in surveys do pretty well. His reply did not surprise me. He said both have a lot of breakdowns and that Bmw and audi were worse and the japanese generally are quite common. I also asked about Italian cars, he said that in fact they are mechanically very reliable cars. I told him how they usually do quite badly in surveys. He said the mags do surveys for marketing purposes and the truth is that they often cause a distorted image of the real picture of a vehicles true identity. I asked about Vauxhall and he said don't bother!!!
He added that they are getting better though.

Finally here are some others horrors of (japanese quality) Honda Civic owners I have collected from website:

I recently purchased the above car and it was delivered on the 24th February. I've had so many problems with it in the first month it's unbelievable! Not at all what you expect of Honda... First of all immediately after delivery the brakes would screech when coming to a stop, this only happened once they were warm. I took it back to the dealer, surprise surprise they couldn't recreate it, but as soon as I drove away, you guessed it..screeeech. Took it back again this time they heard a slight noise and resurfaced the brake pads and discs. This has cured the screech but the brakes sound rougher than they did before.

The next problem was with the metal effect surround for the gear gaiter. Everytime I put it in gear it creaked. Took it back again but they managed to order the wrong part and just replaced the rubber gaiter and not the surround so it still creaked. Finally managed to order the right part and replaced it, now it no longer creaks. The thing that made me angry about both these instances was I was assured that these things were 'normal', why on earth do dealers always insist on saying that, I'm not stupid I know when something isn't right!

Yet another problem is with a noise emanating from the engine once it's warm. It happens when moving in either 1st or reverse when the revs are between 1500rpm and 2000rpm. It's a kind of rattly rough sound and disappears outside that rev range. It's been steadily getting louder, again dealer insists it's normal and is 'just the take up of the engine'.

Then there's the interior rattles! I was told repeatedly that Honda's don't rattle. There's a buzz in the roof lining, this occurs when driving over even just less than perfect road surfaces and is right above my head. It can also be heard when replacing the sun visors or just tapping the roof lining. There's a tick-tick rattle coming from somewhere near the steering wheel. The whole dash seems to rattle when driving along a normal british road, I believe it's the vents but can't be sure. There's a rattle on the door frame, just behind my head, so I can hear it all the time. It's not just me, other people can hear these noises and think it's not acceptable. But isn't amazing how dealer's seem to all be hard of hearing?! I was accused of having sensitive hearing and being paranoid because it's a new car by the dealer. But this is my fourth new car so I know what to expect!

All this from a month old car, so much for Honda's improvements to the 2004 Civic model! I bought a Honda because I heard they were brilliantly built and never went wrong. Have I bought a lemon? What would you advise me to do?

Last year I described how in the hot months the electrics on my Honda Civic Type-R went all 1970s Leyland on me. Now in the cold months the problem's come to the mechanicals.

In late February while I was away on holiday, London experienced a cold snap. I feared the worst as in my opinion Honda had cold and hot weather tested the Type-R in the company car park sometime in spring.

Last year the faults were obvious on the turn of the key in the ignition. This year it wouldn't even open the doors. The battery was dead.

The nice man from an emergency roadside service came out, started me up and looked bewildered that the battery had failed so magnificently. He suggested that maybe the alarm had gone off and run it flat but couldn't be sure; certainly as the battery was healthy he couldn't think of any other reason.

Anyway I drove it off in an attempt to charge up the battery and covered 150 miles. During this drive the brake pedal shuddered at every press. A warped brake disc? Surely not, the car had not moved in two weeks and it's not exactly put through extreme braking on a track. It's more likely to be driven to the supermarket and back at 30 miles an hour.

How could they have warped? Well they had. But by now nothing surprised me about the Type-R.

So frustration, not surprise, was my reaction when the car wouldn't start again two weeks later.

It is now in the dealer's getting fixed. They weren't best pleased when I told them I wanted it back before the weekend so I could go and buy another car and I wasn't best pleased when they said (a) the battery and none of the electrics were in any way at fault and that it could be normal for it to go flat in just two weeks and (b) Honda had only sent one disc, not the two necessary to fix the brakes.

So if anyone wants a Civic Type-R with faulty electrics and shoddy brakes you can have one. Just contact my local dealer. It doubles as my parking space.

I took my Honda Civic Type R to a local garage in June 2004 as I felt the tyres needed air. On checking the pressure the mechanic noticed I had quite a bit of wear on the inside of my rear tyre (passenger side) and advised me that I take the car back to the dealer as this did not look right. I took it back and they informed me that they were aware of this and a number of models for that year had this fault (rear arm suspension both sides). I asked way I had not been contacted about the fault, and they said they only do recalls when it reaches a certain percentage of cars affected.

I was advised that I should not worry as they would take the specification of my car and order the new suspension arms and that there would be no cost as it was covered under my warranty. However, I would possibly be billed for the new tyres (approx £300 each). I stated that the tyres were worn because of the fault, they agreed, but said I would have to pay for the wear and tear due to my use of the car.

I have now been contacted by my local dealer as they now have the parts required - it's taken five weeks to order the part. They have informed me that my Honda warranty does not cover the tyres at all. I contacted Honda UK Customer Services and was told that the wear caused by the fault would be measured against the wear caused by myself for driving and a contribution would be made towards the cost of new tyres on that basis.

I am not happy and I will dispute this arrangement. I did not buy a brand new car in November 2003 to incur the cost of replacing tyres after 7,000 miles due to a fault with the rear suspension. I cannot get any information pertaining to the time the fault was noticed, but I feel I should have been contacted earlier so I could have taken the car back sooner.

If anyone has any advice they can give me I would be most grateful. I am currently driving an unsafe Honda Civic Type R.

Year - 2003

Mileage - 7,000

continues here: (post to long)

On the Honda Civic Type R, the seats are sport type seats with high backs and are covered in Alcantara. After having the car for approx three months I noticed that the edges of the seats were getting very shiny where the seat belt comes across. I had only done approx 4,000 miles and this problem would obviously get worse.

I contacted my dealer and I also wrote to Honda to state that this was a design fault and could they look into a solution for this. Honda asked the dealer to take pictures of the problem areas, which they did and were sent to them.

As a result, Honda has stated that as a "goodwill gesture" they will replace the seat covers 'on this occasion' and the problem is through wear and tear. I do not think so after only 4,000 miles - 50,000 and I would agree. Plus, the fact that the car is under warranty.

I would prefer that a solution to the problem be found rather than change the covers at this stage but it appears they have no plans to look into this.

They suggested that I go and buy some rally pads, which may stop it happening again. Surely this is not down to the customer to buy these to 'maybe' rectify what I consider to be a design fault. I do not know how much these pads are or where to obtain them but that is not the issue.

Having waited patiently on the release of the Honda Civic Type R, I finally bought an ex-demo model in January 2003.

The car was bought from a main dealer and had covered 2,000 miles. After 7,000 miles, the rear discs scored badly and were pitted. This was brought to the attention of Honda UK via my dealer who authorised the resurfacing of the discs. They refused to sanction new pads even though they too were scored and grooved.

After 8,500 miles the car began crunching when selecting third gear. The car was booked into the dealer and a new synchromesh and third and fourth gear cogs were fitted.

I contacted Honda UK to express my disappointment in their product, explaining to them that I have owned eleven previous Hondas and have never had any such problems even on high mileage cars. Their attitude was "that's why we give you a warranty".

I tried on numerous occasions to obtain an explanation for such a poor quality product but was passed from pillar to post. On speaking to a supervisor I realised I was fighting a losing battle when I was told if I had a complaint I should see my dealer.

My recompense for weeks of hassle? A free £120 basic service. My view of the marque is now irreversibly tarnished. Future owners beware.



I have to tell people of an alarming problem with the Civic Type R - anyone with one must get a wheel alignment check done, - a proper one. I have owned mine for about 18 months, and I noticed strange rear-wheel wear. The inner edge of the tyres wear signifiantly more than the rest - I had it checked and the camber at the back was completely out of alignment. It comes from the factrory like this! The only remedy is replacement of suspension components, but not all examples have this though.

Unfortunately that was not the only problem. I have had, as the window rubber also had to be replaced, the fuel flap would not open, there were various rattles (one of which needed a replacement part) and a power steering fault. To top it off it seems to have developed a clonk at the front , but other than these problems it is still a good car. Honest!



A few days ago a strange knocking began to develop from the front suspension of my Honda Civic Type-R. I couldn't see anything amiss under the car and so immediately booked it in to the dealership to be checked.

I assumed that a suspension bush was to blame, but after only a few minutes the very helpful service desk chap told me that the knocking was caused by a loose restraining nut and bolt attaching the front left shock absorber to the chassis. Apparently most new cars have a safety design ensuring that these vital nuts can't work their way loose, but the Civic does not!

As the car is designed to be driven round corners quickly, I suggest that my fellow Civic Type-R owners get their cars checked at least by the next service.


I own a three-month old Honda Civic Type R. Last week, after being parked on a slope for 10-15 minutes, it suddenly decided to travel forwards at a frightening rate and into a relative's double garage - completely wrecking the door in the process.

I think the problem is cooling brakes but there is no way I can take into account the brake temperature on parking and hope it doesn't roll. Needless to say I am extremely frustrated and angry at this and have the vehicle booked in to the dealer's for a rolling road test this afternoon - I shall post the result!

I own a three-month old Honda Civic Type R. Last week, after being parked on a slope for 10-15 minutes, it suddenly decided to travel forwards at a frightening rate and into a relative's double garage - completely wrecking the door in the process.

I think the problem is cooling brakes but there is no way I can take into account the brake temperature on parking and hope it doesn't roll. Needless to say I am extremely frustrated and angry at this and have the vehicle booked in to the dealer's for a rolling road test this afternoon - I shall post the result!

There is a gap between the top of the hatch and the glass on the rear window of my Honda Civic, and the rubber trim directs rainwater to a 'reservoir' at the bottom of the window. I brought this to the attention of my local dealer - who noted the same problem with other Civics on his forecourt. I said that I was concerned that this trapped water will accelerate the onset of corrosion. My dealer contacted Honda which says that nobody else has complained and not to worry as there is a six-year anti-corrosion warranty.

I've had the car only a couple of months and have opened the boot just a couple of times - it has hardly rained since I bought the car. Now I open the boot almost daily, but there will still be a lot of dampness behind said rubber - I daren't use the rear washer.

I feel my compaint has been brushed aside, and I shan't be buying another Honda in future.


I own a used five-month old Honda Civic 2.0 Type S. Soon after I bought it, I noticed that when I drove the car and the engine was cold, it would hesitate after changing to second gear. When the engine had warmed up the hesitation would mostly disappear.

I complained to the Honda dealer from which I bought the car. They contacted Honda UK which said that they had no record of a hesitation fault on any Type S. They recommended that the tappets should be adjusted and the ECU changed. The dealer has carried out this work but the hesitation is still present. I am now waiting for a Honda technical person to come and look at my car. And now my ultrasonic alarm has gone faulty too!

God shes broke her own record of longest post hehe . I know all cars will break down, but i just think its unfair to completely slag fiat off when they are great cars