Restoring Cars

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Restoring Cars

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I see a lot of people restoring old cars - namely ones 'worth' restoring like old 500s from the 50s and Jaguar convertibles etc. Pretty cool.

How much does it cost to restore a car on average?

Though considered a replaceable, unworthy candidate I'd love to keep my Panda for example and rather than save for a new car save for a full restoration. That's if it's still serviceable and in tact a few years down the line.

Unlike many older cars there's good availability of parts and engines and this is likely to continue with Fiats use of the same components on many of their latest models today. Though, also unlike older cars it's got a lot of computer controlled aspects too that depend on a moody BCM computer which so far has been fine, but in the future may be impossible to replace..

We have the space to strip it down ourselves if needed. Down to the metal body. Then, we have means to transport it. Finding a body shop up for the job of patching rusty areas and refinishing it, and respraying it seems the most expensive and difficult part. But if done, I'd have a physically rust free, in shape Panda. Some new panels sprayed at the same and glazing and rubber parts and the outside would be as new.

Then rebuilding the engine up and giving it a clean. With new exhaust, and anything else that looks tatty or worn.

Some reupholstered seats, interior plastics and a new carpet which could also be remade without paying Fiat list prices and it's a new car.

Call me crazy, but if I could do it for under seven thousand I'd be all for it because small cars made today are bigger, reportedly not as good and just generally less appealing to me.

Of course this is just a dream to me and the point of this thread is to hear from some of you here how feasible or not and costly it would be.

Thanks for reading
 
That's a question that probably can't be answered. Cost will depend on so many factors, including, how much bodywork rust, mechanical condition, how much work can be done oneself, or how much paid for at specialists, etc.

Most restorations are carried out on older cars, many that have stood idle for some time, so rust is an issue. With your Panda, rust hopefully is not yet an issue, so time to attack it now, with preventative measures, such as waxoyl in the cavities. A thorough underbody check, at least annually, and any weak areas addressed immediately will prevent it deteriorating. Paintwork will age, due to the UV from the sun, so will need a respray sometime.

Mechanical stuff depends on age and wear & tear. Might be time to stockpile spares, although rubber parts will deteriorate due to age, even if kept in a dark cupboard.

Sadly there will come a time when spares for our Pandas will dry up. Engine stuff will continue longer due to it being used in many Fiats, but vehicle specific parts will stop. As an 'ordinary' car, few will be cherished.
 
Interestingly, earlier today I was looking at a Mondeo ST200 advertised locally, the price was a few hundred pounds when back in the early 2000s I test drove one at about £12k at that time. I considered getting it as a second car to drive the dogs about in and have some 200+BHP fun (not many 200hp cars for under £1k) but having found out it needed some welding and had rusty rear arches, well it's just not worth the hassle, and that's a relatively special car from the Ford stable and likely to be a future classic.

There are just so many mk3 pandas about at the moment, they're not likely to be deemed as anything special in the future and as they age almost all will end up in the scrapyard what remains will be still not worth a lot, and even when there are few left, people wouldn't be looking to pay anything for an old panda. This means the likelihood is that any restoration would cost considerably more than the car is worth.

The best thing you could do is ensure the longevity of the car now by investing in rust protection now and protect the car for the future.

When the future come the car will likely be worth hanging on to if it's still in relatively good shape, probably not worth a couple of hundred of it's riddled with rust and needs lots of work doing.
 
Interestingly, earlier today I was looking at a Mondeo ST200 advertised locally, the price was a few hundred pounds when back in the early 2000s I test drove one at about £12k at that time. I considered getting it as a second car to drive the dogs about in and have some 200+BHP fun (not many 200hp cars for under £1k) but having found out it needed some welding and had rusty rear arches, well it's just not worth the hassle, and that's a relatively special car from the Ford stable and likely to be a future classic.

There are just so many mk3 pandas about at the moment, they're not likely to be deemed as anything special in the future and as they age almost all will end up in the scrapyard what remains will be still not worth a lot, and even when there are few left, people wouldn't be looking to pay anything for an old panda. This means the likelihood is that any restoration would cost considerably more than the car is worth.

The best thing you could do is ensure the longevity of the car now by investing in rust protection now and protect the car for the future.

When the future come the car will likely be worth hanging on to if it's still in relatively good shape, probably not worth a couple of hundred of it's riddled with rust and needs lots of work doing.
I could not agree more ,when I bought my doblo van in 2003 I drove it straight into my garage and it stayed there for 6 weeks while I stripped it down blasted waxoil into every possible cavity and painted the whole underside with black hammerite ,it's regularly cleaned underneath and inspected,I took it for the mot last week and the inspector said he had never seen anything like it !
 
If you want to restore a car because you love it then do it! If you're doing it to make money, unless you are very lucky you wont!

I had a Beetle and spent much much more on it than I eventually got back but that wasn't the point. Even old jags cost more to restore than they are worth. That's why Aston etc cost £500K.

My Multipla is starting to look quite old now and I'm thinking of chucking a bit of cash at it. This would be completely illogical and fruitless but I don't really want to get rid of it and it's only a SX model too but it would be fun.?.?
 
My biggest issue with waxoyl and more in depth, real rust curing is:

Access - how to I get into these areas in order to apply or repair them with engine components etc in the way?

How to actually do it - some parts on the chassis of the car are complicated shapes. The two crash barrier supports and surrounding bulkheads show surface rust. I plastered waxoyl on them last year and they look fine still, but how to get to all areas and inside them where rust prevails is an issue that surely will eventually take hold.

The only rust I've discovered is as mentioned, front crash barriers supports and as well, rear wheel arches.

Other than some rough, chipped paintwork and perfect dents where paint is unbroken or unphased, but a reflection shows a dent my pandas bodywork is perfect.

Worth cutting at those parts and getting them replaced? At this rate, if it's too hard, I'd pay to have it done as it's chassis parts that really could affect the car down the line
 
Most chassis legs/rails have a few holes for drainage. A proper waxoyl kit will include a probe to poke into these holes to inject the wax. If stuffed in far enough, and gently pulled out as sprayed, it will coat the whole insides. Waxoyl is very searching, and creeps around to give a good coating without gaps. Then over a few weeks, you just leave little drips of the stuff.

If unsure of filling the whole cavity, kits of grommets can be bought. Holes are drilled, wax injected, and grommets fitted. Just don't drill holes too near structural areas, as MOT tester will treat as a rust hole.

Downside, if welding needed later, bit of a fire risk.
 
My biggest issue with waxoyl and more in depth, real rust curing is:

Access - how to I get into these areas in order to apply or repair them with engine components etc in the way?

How to actually do it - some parts on the chassis of the car are complicated shapes. The two crash barrier supports and surrounding bulkheads show surface rust. I plastered waxoyl on them last year and they look fine still, but how to get to all areas and inside them where rust prevails is an issue that surely will eventually take hold.

The only rust I've discovered is as mentioned, front crash barriers supports and as well, rear wheel arches.

Other than some rough, chipped paintwork and perfect dents where paint is unbroken or unphased, but a reflection shows a dent my pandas bodywork is perfect.

Worth cutting at those parts and getting them replaced? At this rate, if it's too hard, I'd pay to have it done as it's chassis parts that really could affect the car down the line

Inside rear wheel arches ,sills and rear chassis rails on my 1990 Fiat Tipo required lifting of the carpets,you will find access points if you look hard enough.
 
If...

"How much will it cost?"

...is the first thing you think of; don't bother starting.

Depending on the car it can cost more than it's worth to restore so if you are looking for an investment look elsewhere.

Lots of people are taking on restoration projects; but out of those too many have seen an episode of "Wheeler Dealers" where after a few basic repairs and run over with a polishing mop cars are sold (to hired extras for the show) described as "fully restored". This is not true to life and legally speaking if you try it you could be done for fraud.

In the mean time the market is being diluted by TV inspired bodges so buying a classic is even more treacherous then ever before.
 
If...

"How much will it cost?"

...is the first thing you think of; don't bother starting.

Depending on the car it can cost more than it's worth to restore so if you are looking for an investment look elsewhere.

What ever the project you should always start by asking how much a it's going to cost! What's the point in doing a project if you can't afford to see it through to the end. You could have a beautiful 1920s rolls Royce worth a million pounds when fully restored, but if you can't afford the specialist to repair the body work or make new panels from scratch then there is simply no point.

The value of the car isn't just financial, if the car is a cheap run about and you're not fully invested in he restoration then you're going to quickly lose interest. Or when you later sell it the new owner may just see it as a cheap run about and not see any value in your restoration, later scrapping all your hard work.

In order for a restoration to be worth it the car needs to have some special value or quality.

Look at the old 500, well worth restoring now, very sought after and commanding several thousand pounds for well restored models. And you know if you sell it on someone else will love it. Not the same can be said for many other fiats from the same era, which there are very few about now.
 
I have several 'heaps' to dispose of following my Father's death.
The big car, is a 1939 SS Jaguar, taken with enthusiasm by a guy who will have it restored. His estimated cost is £100,000 over about 5 years. At which point it will be worth around £30-40k. For him, a price worth paying as it is the car he wants. A few saloons still around, but the drophead, very rare, only around 3 or 4 left in the world.

The Herald, was falling to pieces as we dragged it across the yard out of the way. Difficult even for a scrap man to pick up with a grab. Will probably cost us to dispose of.

The third one, an old Standard 8, now built into the garage as the roof props prevent easy removal, is probably worth nothing. Even the Standard owners club refused it.
 

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I have several 'heaps' to dispose of following my Father's death.

The big car, is a 1939 SS Jaguar, taken with enthusiasm by a guy who will have it restored. His estimated cost is £100,000 over about 5 years. At which point it will be worth around £30-40k. For him, a price worth paying as it is the car he wants. A few saloons still around, but the drophead, very rare, only around 3 or 4 left in the world.


That jag is stunning, it's the sort of car that might only be worth £30-40k when it's finished, but in 10 - 15 years with the value of classic cars climbing like it is as the Chinese billionaires snap them all up, it could easily make its initial investment back.
 
That jag is stunning, it's the sort of car that might only be worth £30-40k when it's finished, but in 10 - 15 years with the value of classic cars climbing like it is as the Chinese billionaires snap them all up, it could easily make its initial investment back.

2½ litres, straight six engine, about 90hp I think. Top speed around 90mph, to be stopped by enormous drum brakes all round. No power steering, almost zero rear visibility and the turning circle of a supertanker. Glad to see it go.

Now, anybody want a very sad Stag? Would cost lots more to restore than a good running one costs on Ebay right now. Not much chance there either.
 
2½ litres, straight six engine, about 90hp I think. Top speed around 90mph, to be stopped by enormous drum brakes all round. No power steering, almost zero rear visibility and the turning circle of a supertanker. Glad to see it go.



These days a restoration usually upgrades a few bits here and there to make things more usable, especially the brakes (which I'm guessing were also not servo assisted back in 1939. Also back then why would you need to worry about what is behind you, they didn't have such issues as tight parking spaces in Tesco on a busy Saturday morning.
 
My personal motivation for restoring my Panda isn't that it'll ever be worth anything much in terms of money, I'm happy for the day it goes to be the day it's worthless, in sorry shape and I literally take it to T.Met to watch it be turned into metal flakes. I of course, hope many more years stand between now and then though. I almost don't want to let anyone else have it after all my personal investment in it. It comes more down to the fact I really like it now, can't see myself ever suddenly 'not liking' it and out of the new cars available today none of them really impress me. Even VW's city car resorts to coloured metal on the interior and the current Panda is the least cheap, least 'budget' feeling city car in my opinion. And the people who have owned those and our type of Panda only ever complain about how bad the newer one is which makes me think I'm in no hurry to run to any new models. And I read that Fiat have no choice but to make the next ones even larger again?! I sure hope not. It seems to be a lot more expensive to restore than I thought! I was hoping a few grand for a refinish and respray of the chassis and the rest, I do myself with family of course including stripping it down , moving it , buying parts and rebuilding the engine. But if it costs multiples of it's original cost that's where I have to draw the line. Whereas, if I could have it done for the price of a new £6,995 Panda Pop then I'd opt for it. Some good discussion as always though and I appreciate everyone's input
 
The best thing you could do is ensure the longevity of the car now by investing in rust protection now and protect the car for the future.

That, absolutely - corrosion in one form or another continues to kill cars. Bodyshells may be galvanised now, but there are many other parts of the car which are vulnerable (for example sumps & rear beams on Pandas), and even galvanising won't protect forever.

Cars leave the factory with a 10-12 year design life; if you want it to last longer than this, adding additional corrosion proofing is the best way to go about it.

The optimium time to do this is when the car has just come out of the factory. Once it's 10 years old, the damage has been done and whilst you may still be able to extend its life a few years, you won't get the same return for your efforts as if you'd put them into a new car. Back in the days when aftermarket rust treatment of new cars was commonplace, Ziebart would only guarantee the work if done on cars less than 3 months old.

Whereas, if I could have it done for the price of a new £6,995 Panda Pop then I'd opt for it.

Putting £6995 into a new Panda Pop will give you a far, far better return on your investment than putting £6995 into the car you currently own.

Buy it a month before you need it, then spend that month diligently adding corrosion protection to anything you think might ever corrode in the future. Remove, grease and replace every bolt you think you may ever need to remove again in the next twenty years. Been there, done that, with a R5 back in 1989. I got almost 220k miles out of it before selling it after 13 years, and the next owner got at least another 3 years from it. Most were on the scrapheap after less than 100k/10yrs.

Your current car is too old, worn and rusty to be worth doing this to now; you could get a better return on your investment in both time and money elsewhere. Consider instead the value you've had from it in teaching you the basics of mechanics, and in identifying those areas where a little additional protection would help. The car may go to that great scrapyard in the sky, but the knowledge & skills you've gained from it will live on for the rest of your life.
 
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Shame about the Herald. My second car was a Mk1 948cc one.

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Sorry Andy I think you got the wrong end of the stick there. I was talking about profiteering not budgeting. ;)
 
Common cars dont get cherished..

So in 30 years..they are the relatively rare ones..look at Palio..with the 'concours d'ordinaire'.

My estate agent loved our X1/9..and said the agency nearly bought one ..but got a 128 p as it was more practical...

The 128 is far rarer now..!!
 
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Common cars dont get cherished..

So in 30 years..they are the relatively rare ones..look at Palio..with the 'concours d'ordinaire'.

My estate agent loved our X1/9..and said the agency nearly bought one ..but got a 128 p as it was more practical...

The 128 is far rarer now..!!

The fiat 128 was very much of the era of the original fiat 500, they were very high volume and a lot of people owned them, however these days no one remembers them (or thinks they're a lada) and they are not desirable.

I suspect in 20-30 years time the panda will be much the same, generations ahead will look back fondly at he retro fiat 500 that fiat currently produce, they will have fun stories and look to recapture their youth by owning a well cherished and restored 500 pop or lounge, but I can't see too many people doing the same with the current panda, and it's likely only a few enthusiasts like now will keep old pandas going.
 
Sorry Andy I think you got the wrong end of the stick there. I was talking about profiteering not budgeting. ;)

I know exactly what you meant, I just chose to address a different point. you're still wrong though if you've got £20k to spend fully restoring an old car then no matter what your thoughts are you're not going to be restoring something that no one has an interest in saving for the future, your £20k will always be better spent restoring something that is though of in high regard. Even if you won't make money from restoring it, another 10-20 years later prices will have risen to a point you might break even or make a few pounds which can be handed down the family, that or a family member could go on to further appreciate and cherish the car. Restore something old bland and boring that no one has any interest in and future generations won't car and the next owner will neglect it or scrap it, so there is no point.
 
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