I think that if one thing could make my Panda more comfortable it'd be good, supportive seats. I'm no expert on what makes a good seat, but I know my Panda is far from the gold standard of comfort. Only on long journeys do I feel a back ache, and I have no mobility or injuries to blame on it..

Can a small or city car be as comfortable as a larger car? The assumption always is 'well those cars are only designed for short city trips' and 'no good' for longer trips. Though as I take my Panda everywhere, I beg to differ.

When it comes down the line to replace it I've pictured a new Panda or 500 as the first call. But they've hardly focussed on making comfortable seats. So I've been wondering.. does any city car or small car on sale today actually have drastically more comfortable seating? or is 'discomfort' a fact of owning a smaller car?

I'm talking the smallest car on the road, up to the point of a Corsa / Fiesta but ideally for me, the size of a Panda / 108 etc is the sweet spot in size

Our mini is very comfortable for long drives, comfy leather seats which support the sides and with adjustable thigh support, as well as heating elements and lumbar adjustment, to add to the comfort it had cruise control and climate control to keep everything very comfortable. The final thing is it's very well sound deadened so the road and outside noise isn't too intrusive.

That said I did 70+k miles in my old punto and found the seats perfectly comfortable.

With small cars it's not just about the seats, bigger cars have suspension loaded with more weight, this takes the jolt out of bumps more, and bigger tyres disperse the shocks and bumps over a bigger area more give in a larger side wall etc. There is more to it than just seats.

I used to drive a lot of French cars about 13 years ago all over the country and despite the fact they were very comfy with warm and soft squidgy seats, they also caused me terrible sciatica as they were too soft

As Andy says there are many other factors in not just seats.

The DS3 has a lovely pair of office chairs in it. I could sit in them for hours..if the car was stationary. They feel lovely when you first sit in them but they have no lateral support, also the ergonomics of the pedal box are awful. Any drive more than about 30 mins leads to a dead left leg as the foot rest is just at an unnatural angle. At this point it doesn't matter how good or bad the ride is or that it has climate/cruise etc..the basics are so wrong you can't appreciate anything else.

Going the other way I really wasn't a fan of the mazda seats when I got it, they are heavily bucketed and the 1st thing you notice when you sit in it. They are not immediately comfortable and yet it's possible to do 5 hours none stop in that car. They actually have lateral/thigh and lumber support also the pedals aren't designed to cripple you. The car itself is quieter than the Citroen and better sprung but the ergonomics are what is important initially not the type of car.

A bigger car is more likely to be more comfortable (for many reasons not including the seats) but bad design choices can make what could be a comfy car excruciating, good choices can make the most of not much. Bigger cars to tend to get more adjustment though, so rake and reach on the steering wheel, up down and fore and aft/angle adjust on the seat base, then adjustable back and lumbar support/heating. It does make it more likely one of the possible options is right for you.

So er to sum up, bigger cars tend to be nicer but getting the basics right is what's required and small cars can do that too and any car can get it wrong regardless of class.

So my only solution is to scrape more money together and go bigger if I really want the comfort?

All that makes sense tbh, most of it physics then.

Hopefully the ride quality of small cars in the long term isn't enough to cause long term problems, as that's the only reason I could justify being one of those people with a 'big' car but myself 95% of the time driving it!

A lot will depend on your own body shape. I find the Panda seats very comfortable. But I don't fit many car seats well.
The Corsa C was fine, if I got the seat back just right. A tiny bit off and backache in around half an hour.
The Fiesta, current model, is Ok for quite some time, but not as good for as long as the Panda.
Space plays a part. You can't fit big seats in a small car. As well as less padding, the seats are also made smaller to give the impression of more space around them.

Easiest upgrade would probably be seats from a 500. I'd guess they might just bolt straight in. The Sport model had quite supportive seats. Scrapyard trawl? Not an option for mine, don't suppose I'd find orange ones.

You have to remember small cars have got bigger and heavier over the last 20 years. Unless you are ploughing grooves in motorways day in day out most will be good for the odd long trip. Things have come a long way since your panda left the factory.

That corsa I had last month was entirely reasonable for 3.5 hours trip.

I only went bigger for reasons of regularly carrying adult passengers for distance and moving lots of stuff.

StevenRB45 said:

You have to remember small cars have got bigger and heavier over the last 20 years. Unless you are ploughing grooves in motorways day in day out most will be good for the odd long trip. Things have come a long way since your panda left the factory.



That corsa I had last month was entirely reasonable for 3.5 hours trip.



I only went bigger for reasons of regularly carrying adult passengers for distance and moving lots of stuff.

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I think a lot about what I'll buy next / the future.

I like the idea of the cheap, practical and worry-less attitude of small cars. It's less attractive in the grand scheme, cheaper to replace etc therefore it sits better in my mind than an expensive, 'looker' of a car.

I used to love Range Rovers until I realised even when you spend 70k+ it'll still rust away at the same rate as a Sandero!

But I see your point, small cars are getting larger. Even the current smart car seems a lot wider than the last ..

Well look at this way, an awful lot of the improvement in ride and handling has come from tyres. Improved crash strength and torsional rigidity has made them heavier but allows better suspension set up as well.

The corsa I had was on 215/50 17s..they are actually bigger than the ones on the Mazda which are 205s. The brakes were a decent size as well. It had bucket seats, cruise, leather steering wheel, Android car play e.t.c. e.t.c.

A bigger car would be even nicer..but how much do you need for what you do? I've never slid on 205s without hitting diesel or doing it on purpose. A small car on 215s is pure overkill it's on rails.

Our mini is huge by comparison to older cars, but despite its size it's still comparable in size to similarly classed cars.

The golf is large by fiat standards but it's not much bigger than the mini.

Unless you're planning to buy a brand new car a lot of this stuff doesn't matter. You would set yourself a budget and look for cars that suite your needs that fit that budget.

There is little point in picking out your next car years in advance, as time goes by your needs and opinions will change and you'll end up with something you never thought you would

Once again good advice from you guys. Thanks

Go up in spec/market, rather than up in size.

Lancia Ypsilon?


Worst seats I've ever encountered are the Citroen ZX/Xsara, no lower back support, Xantia on the other hand was excellent.

Steve145 said:

Go up in spec/market, rather than up in size.

Lancia Ypsilon?


Worst seats I've ever encountered are the Citroen ZX/Xsara, no lower back support, Xantia on the other hand was excellent.

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We don't get them in the UK anymore though I'd perfectly be fine with one!

For me it's looking like a 500 next, particularly if any future-Panda mockups turn out to be true.. or a step up in size etc.

Mostly due to the nice looks (IMO) of the 500, the option for those £850 seat upgrades - think it even adds 'comfier' head rests - etc. It offers all the luxuries of any other non-actual-luxury car too. Only thing I dislike is the 3-door thing, but tbh with no kids I don't see that as too much of an issue. I love road trips with others in the Panda - back doors are handy - but nobody really wants to come in my car because I'd imagine it's too cramped! Lol

I wish Volvo, BMW, Honda etc had true 'tiny' cars with their brand appeal but I suppose there's no market for it beyond the 500.. since the other retro cars like the Mini and Beetle are now approaching Focus/Golf size!

SB1500 said:

We don't get them in the UK anymore though I'd perfectly be fine with one!



For me it's looking like a 500 next, particularly if any future-Panda mockups turn out to be true.. or a step up in size etc.



Mostly due to the nice looks (IMO) of the 500, the option for those £850 seat upgrades - think it even adds 'comfier' head rests - etc. It offers all the luxuries of any other non-actual-luxury car too. Only thing I dislike is the 3-door thing, but tbh with no kids I don't see that as too much of an issue. I love road trips with others in the Panda - back doors are handy - but nobody really wants to come in my car because I'd imagine it's too cramped! Lol



I wish Volvo, BMW, Honda etc had true 'tiny' cars with their brand appeal but I suppose there's no market for it beyond the 500.. since the other retro cars like the Mini and Beetle are now approaching Focus/Golf size!

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I looked at the beetle but it's so impractical, the cabriolet makes the 500c boot look like a cavern.

A lot of those cars you mention are bigger, but they are the size of a 15 year old focus, which is quite small now, realistically if you look at the sizes of cars they are all getting bigger. When the next 500 comes it too will have to be bigger to improve its crash test safety and fit all the equipment in that people want.

And a 500 replacement is long overdue, fiat can't keep giving it gentle facelifts and expect people to keep buying it, it is still the same car as it was in 2007 (10 years ago) with a bit of a tweak here and there.

AndyRKett said:

I looked at the beetle but it's so impractical, the cabriolet makes the 500c boot look like a cavern.

A lot of those cars you mention are bigger, but they are the size of a 15 year old focus, which is quite small now, realistically if you look at the sizes of cars they are all getting bigger. When the next 500 comes it too will have to be bigger to improve its crash test safety and fit all the equipment in that people want.

And a 500 replacement is long overdue, fiat can't keep giving it gentle facelifts and expect people to keep buying it, it is still the same car as it was in 2007 (10 years ago) with a bit of a tweak here and there.

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The Beetle is the only car VW makes that I really like. Though the early 2000s model was an absolute mess, I'd rather have an original Multipla than that!!! But too large and I actually test drove the 1.6 when my friend bought a new Polo.. I didn't know much about cars or have anything to compare it to then but I remember the dash being very high, reflective and steering gave off a very odd type of body roll!

Maybe when in about 6 years I'll just professionally pay to strip the Panda, reprep and spray it, get an engine rebuild and just enjoy it forever ;-) Unless it's crashed in which case.. that'd have been a waste lol

SB1500 said:

The Beetle is the only car VW makes that I really like. Though the early 2000s model was an absolute mess, I'd rather have an original Multipla than that!!! But too large and I actually test drove the 1.6 when my friend bought a new Polo.. I didn't know much about cars or have anything to compare it to then but I remember the dash being very high, reflective and steering gave off a very odd type of body roll!

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The dash was massive and curved making it seem even bigger, then with the way the bonnet, wings and boot drop away from the windows, it was quite difficult to judge where the corners were. Still not a terrible car and was very popular, but yes it was a bit of a mess. The new car is a lot better designed, and more inkeeping with the original beetle for its interior and exterior design, I like it, just not enough the spend £20k+ on one

AndyRKett said:

The dash was massive and curved making it seem even bigger, then with the way the bonnet, wings and boot drop away from the windows, it was quite difficult to judge where the corners were. Still not a terrible car and was very popular, but yes it was a bit of a mess. The new car is a lot better designed, and more inkeeping with the original beetle for its interior and exterior design, I like it, just not enough the spend £20k+ on one

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That's exactly what I felt with the current model on a test drive. Couldn't imagine where the corners were!

Like a yoghurt pot upside down, the way the corners stick out but feel like they have no volume because of the shape of the wing / front sections!

Yeah it's quite pricey. But I suppose you're getting a fancy Golf really. Just like for a few grand more the 500 is a fancy Panda .. same underneath with no real breakthrough other than the body shell to justify the extra price. Those marketers and their 'product positioning'. It's us that pays for it lol

Nobody has mentioned the dead pedal. By which I mean the support for the resting clutch foot. Without enough space in the pedal box to the left of the clutch for the resting foot driving becomes instantly difficult.

Fiat is guilty of this with the Bravo and Alfa Giulietta and I think this has contributed to their lack of success. Few road testers mention this fault, doubtless because they want to be invited back to drive new cars, but the reality is that having nowhere to put your left foot other than under the pedal is both uncomfortable and potentially dangerous.

Not being able to reach first gear easily without stretching, as with some Fiats, and the weird off-line positioning of steering wheel, pedals and seat that affects some French cars I can think are other comfort no-nos. It isn't just the seats...

Returning to the seats problem: you might try if 500-seats better suit your body. Since the 500 is based on the panda-platform there is a reasonable chance that they will fit on the same tracks. Maybe someone around here already has experience with this?
If you would live outside the UK, i would have recommended the Lancia Ypsilon seats with extra adjustment possibilities, but that just isn't an option...
Otherwise you might also consider aftermarket seats (like e.g. Recaro). Not cheap, but a lot cheaper than a bigger car.

Rcl said:

Returning to the seats problem: you might try if 500-seats better suit your body. Since the 500 is based on the panda-platform there is a reasonable chance that they will fit on the same tracks. Maybe someone around here already has experience with this?

If you would live outside the UK, i would have recommended the Lancia Ypsilon seats with extra adjustment possibilities, but that just isn't an option...

Otherwise you might also consider aftermarket seats (like e.g. Recaro). Not cheap, but a lot cheaper than a bigger car.

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I might search. I know people have fitted Ford ka seats with minimal adjustments. Not that they'd be much better!

Those luxury 500 seat options would be great. I'd actually fork out a few hundred for some if there was a reasonable chance I could take them to my next Panda / 500 / Fiat which to be honest because I'm enjoying my current Fiat so much now it'll more than likely be