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Old 18-11-2016   #61
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

you just reminded me ,

a few weeks ago I saw an early BASE @2002..? Cowley mini ,
and thought oh - that looks like a "proper mini" .

testament to how they've overstyled it to oblivion..,

earlier today , passing a proper oldschool back street garage
my eye was drawn to a Bright Orange 2007'ish Panda half on the path.. after a brief glance realised it wasn't an Alessi - but a Mambo..maybe even rarer..?
and in front of it a 500.

once I'd driven by , a glance in the rear mirror made me double take ,
the "500" was in fact a Vauxhall Adrian..

how an earth did I mistake that piece of "quality street" for a 500,
to be fair all I REALLY noticed were some bling alloys.
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Old 18-11-2016   #62
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
Nothing special. Bugatti is definitely over engineered.

The Italians do it better

You mean under engineer everything
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Old 18-11-2016   #63
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Quote Originally Posted by Liquid Knight View Post
Drivers aids have their place and don't get me wrong I appreciate all the statistics and everything else but, the standard of driving is falling as drivers aids are getting better.

When I first started being interested in cars things like ABS and power steering were luxury items. Now most driving school cars have more gizmos and gadgets than a space shuttle and as new drivers can not afford a new car with all that crap their twenty year old Vauxhall Corsa end up in a ditch.
Tbf in the old days new drivers found ditches just as easily as they do now. Although I'd highly recommend they spend their formative years in an uno and a mk1 punto to learn the finer points of car control before they disappear behind the electric safety net. I have friends (I know it's a surprise! ) who have only driven cars with abs and esp for a long time and they will throw the car at corners and jam the anchors and let the electrics sort it which is worrying as all hell to me.

They can keep the self drive crap...I enjoy driving, I'm interested in it so why I'd buy a car where I'd be relegated to systems monitor is beyond me, however if you have no interest in driving then you should have all them fitted as standard with no off switch. Driving standards may be worse but that could be down everyone driving now and the vast majority seeing it as a mindless chore and having no interest in being good at it..
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Old 18-11-2016   #64
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
You mean under engineer everything

Such as? Some examples ;-)

To be honest theres probably VW forums with more people that agree with you. But we're all here for one reason - little Italian motors
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Old 18-11-2016   #65
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
Such as? Some examples ;-)

To be honest theres probably VW forums with more people that agree with you. But we're all here for one reason - little Italian motors

The point here is (and there are plenty of people who will disagree with you on your point) that you are criticising something for being over engineered.

That's like saying I want to buy a new wardrobe but I don't want the solid oak item, I will take the chip board because that's the right level of engineering for what I want.

In the world of cars, VW and Audi (true or not) is like the oak item, where as fiat has a reputation among the general public as being made wet from cardboard. Italian cars in general have a poor reputation for build quality, anyone who has owned an older Ferrari will tell you how badly they rust, which is why fans of Italian cars always bang on about the 'personality' or 'passion'

I have a love hate relationship with Italian cars, I love Ferrari and Maserati and would buy one, but then there are better cars about that are much better made and more reliable.

Give the current lineup of fiat I would never buy another one and there is no older model fiat that there are not better equivalents out there
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Old 18-11-2016   #66
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

VW and Audi do absolutely nothing that Fiat do 'very poorly' in comparison, again some good actual comparison points would help.

I can name you one example of the problems with VW over engineering... the bonnet release pull. What none sense. The grandfather was up with us the other day because he couldn't get it open, the mechanism was all busted. Had to pry open the latch with a screwdriver. That's on a Passat, a much better car according to people like yourself. Much more expensive etc. Yet the little steel simple mechanism on my Panda made of 3 pieces by the looks of it does the job just fine ..

I can find more examples I'm sure. But my point it they do a lot of things that are a waste of time and money and to be honest, none of them are things I'd say make them better quality in the finest.

Look up a guy called Scotty Kilmer, he has a good video on the Mercedes and BMW Marques showing first hand a list of sheer screw ups of engineering and yet there's people who think they're the best cars on the road...

None sense. If you want to talk about good engineering , Honda and Toyota sure I'd accept because there's a lot of real technical decisions and materials they use to ensure reliability.

As for reputation, the public can think what they want. But the simplicity of this little Panda is nothing to be looked down upon when the reality is - cost of repairs, reliability and practicality
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Old 18-11-2016   #67
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
best of luck with the mokka,
what engine..??

in laws have had some legal wranglings over theirs.
Changed our mind and are looking at the 500x, much nicer car to drive and the interior of the mokka is just nasty.
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Old 18-11-2016   #68
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Quote Originally Posted by Gavv8 View Post
Changed our mind and are looking at the 500x, much nicer car to drive and the interior of the mokka is just nasty.

The 500X looks great. I'm so glad Fiat has used their 500 styling on something so modern and market friendly. These crossovers are taking the market by storm.

Three people on my street have them! One guy traded in a 90s well kept Mondeo for one.. he must have been really convinced ;-) haha

I'd say the 500X has more style/substance and would be more fun to drive.

Though personally I like some of the Vauxhalls ATM.
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Old 19-11-2016   #69
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
again some good actual comparison points would help.

I can name you one example of the problems with VW over engineering... the bonnet release pull. What none sense. The grandfather was up with us the other day because he couldn't get it open, the mechanism was all busted. Had to pry open the latch with a screwdriver. That's on a Passat, a much better car according to people like yourself. Much more expensive etc. Yet the little steel simple mechanism on my Panda made of 3 pieces by the looks of it does the job just fine ..

I can find more examples I'm sure. But my point it they do a lot of things that are a waste of time and money and to be honest, none of them are things I'd say make them better quality in the finest.

But the simplicity of this little Panda is nothing to be looked down upon when the reality is - cost of repairs, reliability and practicality

I note I recent thread of yours where you had to pay out to have a new sump as yours had rusted through.
This is a prime example of poor engineering, cheap parts not properly protected and they rust, it's not something you ever notice on other cars, it's usually very unfortunate for a sump to rust though. In the same thread I note you've spent 900 in the last year on repairs which doesn't say quality and reliability at all, you could probably bought a whole second panda for the costs spent on repairing yours. In this respect you are your own argument against fiat quality and reliability and the reason people have a poor view of Italian cars.
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Old 19-11-2016   #70
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
I note I recent thread of yours where you had to pay out to have a new sump as yours had rusted through.
This is a prime example of poor engineering, cheap parts not properly protected and they rust, it's not something you ever notice on other cars, it's usually very unfortunate for a sump to rust though. In the same thread I note you've spent 900 in the last year on repairs which doesn't say quality and reliability at all, you could probably bought a whole second panda for the costs spent on repairing yours. In this respect you are your own argument against fiat quality and reliability and the reason people have a poor view of Italian cars.
In fairness, 2/3 of that is probably in Main dealer labour..,

but yes - you are right, that's essentially the value of the car.

that's why you see private sale adverts for 8 year old "quality" cars,
where they are still using main dealers , and are spending it's "book value" every year..

so they sell it for 2K , and go and buy another newer version for 25K+



TBH - the only sump I've needed to change was on a Cat C punto,
and around the same time the entire floor fell out - car had BAD earthing issues too,
I suspect it was actually damaged by Water - not accidents.
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Old 19-11-2016   #71
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Gentlemen, cars of different design/engines/makes & what have you, are what they are. Go to other car forums & you will read different points of views of practically anything regarding the motor industry. Obviously some will have that special dislike & while everyone is entitled to their views I pride myself that I would never force my thoughts on to anyone. The problem here if you will, it's only too easy to say just about anything on any social media site.

I'm certainly not a member of many car forums, but every now & again I'm directed to one & the willy waving is both amusing/sad at the same time. Some are subtle while others are just plain neolithic man syndrome. Again I echo I don't hate any car, what I do think is, some vehicles could be better thought out in some areas & of course there are some ugly efforts out there but hey ho not a reason to hate. Just my thoughts....
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Old 19-11-2016   #72
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Just remembered. Vauxhall Corsa B & C without central locking. With central locking, wonderful car.
For some reason the tailgate latch has double latch, like the side doors. Without central locking, I would lock the car, walk around to the back to retrieve anything from the boot. Turn key to unlock, release tailgate, turn key to lock, key in pocket. Lift stuff out, shut lid, all locked. Worked well with everything, until I was loaned a Corsa whilst Panda CLX was having body repairs after being hit by a BMW. (Panda repaired, BMW written off, result) The Corsa has a heavy tailgate, so releasing it and letting go will just activate the first latch. So now you have to unlock it again. If you lift it high enough not to re-latch, it is heading upwards and now two hands are needed. So you have to unlock, and only lock it once you have your arms full of luggage.
Had it three weeks, after two days wanted to throw it off a cliff. Amazing how a tiny thing can grow.

Thanks for listening, I feel better now.
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Old 19-11-2016   #73
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

And breath....
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Old 19-11-2016   #74
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

when we bought our panda @2005, Oxfordshire still didn't have any FIAT or Alfa Dealers,
so a service always involved a day off work and a trip West down the M4,
Swindon had a HUGE outfit that had @80% of all car brands in 1/4 mile radius,

no matter what we ALWAYS got a Renault as a loan car, for a visit to Bath,

the 10mph self locking doors ALWAYS made us jump leaving the premises,
the rest of the journey? , drier and warmer than walking..!!

never had any luck with hire cars though..,
book a small petrol fiat ,
get a diesel people carrier.
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Old 19-11-2016   #75
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Re: The top 10 cars you hate...

Fiat cuts corners in some areas surely yeah to save money. Though most of the money I spent on my Panda were things like shocks, timing belt etc - things any car would need. If I did all that on my uncles VW Bora for example, id have paid double!

I just don't think they do anything 'better' at all really for people to take a high ground and look down at Fiats and call them crap.

You get what you pay for really, and when you pay less and get a Fiat, sure you'll have cut costs and things like the rust sump, but the car is still very cheap to run and in my opinion a very good choice. When you buy, for example an Audi A4 like my aunty has, you're getting a more refined car sure.. but there's absolutely nothing special in my opinion to justify the money. She spent 720 getting a clutch in the thing! For 110 all in I got a whole kit, seals and transmission oil for my Panda!!! Personally I'd say that's where I get my irrational love for Fiat. Don't get me wrong, annoyed at the fact I have to do some things of course, but majority of these things would have costed a fortune on a VAG car and let's face it, the gear box on an A4 ain't anything special even compared to my Panda lol for the what, 17,000 difference in price?!

I'll shut up about it now, and if course this is my opinion. I respect anyone with other opinions too. Not out to cause ill feeling as everyone in this forum has been great in helping me :-)
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