dave said:

its to make the rich in them countries richer

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I think it is also so that silver-spoon politicians can feel virtuous and take the moral high ground, whilst giving away billions of pounds of taxpayers money at such a rate that the civil servants can't check properly what it is being used for or by whom.
At the time the coalition Government at the time were arguing the case to pass in to law the requirement to pay a minimum % of our GDP , they were arguing that by investing this money in places like Somalia, Eritrea, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. it was to make us safer here in Europe.Really?
At a cost approaching £200 per head of our population every year, and rising, it's not cheap and neither is it working.

StevenRB45 said:

This assumes they would come in legally and submit to background checks. Terrorists may be among the refugees, they may not be but if that line of entry closed they have the finances, the means, and the will to find another. They may pray on those already here but feeling abandoned by society or they may smuggle their people in or a combination of both. Either way refugees and terrorists are not one and the same, slamming the door may stop the needy but it won't stop the ones you really don't want to meet.

The more we step back from helping, the more negative the reactions become, the more it becomes us and them the worse it becomes. They want to paint the west in a negative light so they can justify their actions and recruit more

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The terrorists may well have the means and the will to get here by other means, but surely it is the job of our politicians to make it harder for them not easier? That is presumably why "we" have said that we will only accept migrants from official camps.
"The more we step back from helping".
We already are one of the most generous countries in the world in financial contributions and generosity of spirit towards genuine refugees. What the public don't deserve is to be taken for mugs and be lectured to by the great and the good who would never be affected by mass economic migration other than the fact it might help them find a cheap nanny or odd-job man.

anyone else think it strange the french raid so many places after the event, its like they knew these people were dodgy but did nothing about it until it was too late

From the coverage I heard coming home it appears they had a good number of pieces of the puzzle but didn't put them together. Although I'm sure the full story will come out in the next weeks/months.

I travelled back from Paris on Friday night, our Eurostar train was supposed to leave at just before 17:00 but we didn't get going till well after 17:30 due to the checks taking a long time. The station was full of sniffer dogs and there were lots more than usual French armed police and army walking around the station.

We then had the police walk up and down the train a couple of times before we finally got going. About 10 minutes in we braked from 180mph down to a full stop sending everything flying off the tables while they were serving dinner. Win no explanation and with lots of very nervous looking staff. We also didn't stop in Lille like we always do which I found strange.

All in all I think they knew something was coming they just didn't know where or when, but they weren't taking any chances.

I guess they have all this intelligence, which as said, might not make any sense until something like that happens.

And the fact they recovered AKs and rocket launchers suggest that what they then did was well researched and well co-ordinated. Obviously had these targets for a while.

Shame nothing will ever stop this.

dave said:

anyone else think it strange the french raid so many places after the event, its like they knew these people were dodgy but did nothing about it until it was too late

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It was the first thing I thought when I heard the news this morning.
If they knew where the bad guys were, then why didn't they go after them as soon as they knew.
The alternative means that this is a revenge attack pure and simple - which politically is understandable, but not the smartest move as it will most likely mean on tomorrow's news will be pictures of a hospital or a school in Raqqah blown to bits. And more recruits to IS.

Problem is; there is no way to resolve this.

It won't die out. There's zero chance of negotiation. What does that leave? I'll be honest, I can't think of much more.

What we need to happen is for somehow the message gets through to this band of petty thieves/ social inadequates/ can't get a real girlfriend that actually once you have blown your self to bits there is no 72 virgins (or whatever the going rate is now) waiting. Nowt. Nothing. In fact it tells you a lot doesn't it that the aim of he exercise seems to get your hands on not just a woman, any woman, but no - it's got to be a large amount of virgins.
Wishful thinking but it would be great if somebody amongst their number would start to preach about living this life not some hopeful next one.

pooroldcodger said:

What we need to happen is for somehow the message gets through to this band of petty thieves/ social inadequates/ can't get a real girlfriend that actually once you have blown your self to bits there is no 72 virgins (or whatever the going rate is now) waiting. Nowt. Nothing. In fact it tells you a lot doesn't it that the aim of he exercise seems to get your hands on not just a woman, any woman, but no - it's got to be a large amount of virgins.
Wishful thinking but it would be great if somebody amongst their number would start to preach about living this life not some hopeful next one.

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Haha, well this is true. Also, I'm sorry, but who needs 72?! I've got one girlfriend, and to be honest, she's enough for me. I'm thankful for her. Maybe they just need to get out more. Go for a nice relaxed date.

I literally cannot wrap my head around it. We'd let them have their beliefs if they stopped this insane tyrade on our way of life. That'd be it. Over.

Noxide said:

Haha, well this is true. Also, I'm sorry, but who needs 72?! I've got one girlfriend, and to be honest, she's enough for me. I'm thankful for her. Maybe they just need to get out more. Go for a nice relaxed date.

I literally cannot wrap my head around it. We'd let them have their beliefs if they stopped this insane tyrade on our way of life. That'd be it. Over.

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You have it there in a nutshell.
There have been Muslims living in this country for a long long time, without trouble. Muslims fought alongside Jews Hindus and Sikhs in wars gone by.
The difference was that each religion kept to itself and respected the other's rights to have different views.
Unfortunately due to the numbers involved, there are now thousands of peasant immigrants from the villages and rural areas who have no intention of integrating in to a western way of life, and because that has been allowed and encouraged over time, alongside an aggressive interpretation of Islam, we now have the situation that any non-Muslim is automatically regarded as an enemy. I am afraid to say that our western tolerance has started to bite us on the bum and will only get worse.
If you then add to that of course the actions of Dumb and Dumber - Bush and Blair in invading Iraq with no idea whatsoever what would fill the vacuum, and you can see a toxic mess, largely of our own making. (By "our" I mean our politicians, not our people in general).

pooroldcodger said:

You have it there in a nutshell.
There have been Muslims living in this country for a long long time, without trouble. Muslims fought alongside Jews Hindus and Sikhs in wars gone by.
The difference was that each religion kept to itself and respected the other's rights to have different views.

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I saw a banner at a protest once, that just said "Don't be a ****" in big capital letters - I think that sums it up.

Generally I'm apathetic about religion. But I would never force mine on other people. Just let them do their thing. If you think they'll go to hell or something when they die, let them. Their choice. They're not helping people convert by doing what they do!

My thoughts when I saw the title explained in one gif.

Noxide said:

They're not helping people convert by doing what they do!

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"Convert or die" would seem to be the tagline.

I have no time for extremes of any religion to be frank.
Think of the economies of scale that are to be had if all the religious "industry" just united under one banner : "Be Nice!"
You could roll all the commandments and whatever else there is to follow just by saying:
"Be generous, be thoughtful, be considerate to your fellow man".
Think of the other spin-off benefits?
Jews could eat what they want and not have to knock off early on a Friday.
Catholic priests could have girlfriends and give the altar boys a rest
Muslims could have a lie in and not have to keep washing their feet and other bits 5 times a day.
All the churches, mosques, synagogues could remain but used as community centres instead!
I think that's my best idea of the day so far!

i wonder if you get all the virgins at the same time or get one then when she starts nagging get a new one and then another when she starts nagging, that would be an ok deal but if you got them all at once and then they all start nagging at the same time that would be hell Ahhhh

Imagine trying to take them all out for a night out? A coach wouldn't even be big enough would it?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...-ambulance-packed-6849876?ICID=FB_mirror_main

hope they have checked the ones at wembely

y daughter just brought some much-needed levity to this debate.
I told her about Dave's comments (above) and she said:
Why are you discussing immigrants on the Fiat Forum? Are they all arriving in Puntos and Pandas?

pooroldcodger said:

y daughter just brought some much-needed levity to this debate.
I told her about Dave's comments (above) and she said:
Why are you discussing immigrants on the Fiat Forum? Are they all arriving in Puntos and Pandas?

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Haha because no one has anything else to do on here?