puntofan01 said:

You owned a high mileage Grande for what, a year?

Obviously, there's cars a lot faster, and designed solely for going fast, etc. I really don't care. I live in the real world, and for me, a small car is all I need, and I'm content with that.

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Not being funny, but you're deliberately missing the point, or rather dodging the question.

AndyRKett said:

Not being funny, but you're deliberately missing the point, or rather dodging the question.

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Now Andy, you wouldn't be guilty of that yourself now would you?

puntofan01 said:

You owned a high mileage Grande for what, a year?

Obviously, there's cars a lot faster, and designed solely for going fast, etc. I really don't care. I live in the real world, and for me, a small car is all I need, and I'm content with that.

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Yeah, I must agree, though I've not driven any terribly fast or expensive cars - just small cheap ones - I think people who need 'speed' and 'power' are more delusional than we'll ever be to be honest. Personally the fact my car goes faster than I could run, and for longer means it's doing it's job brilliantly of getting me to anywhere I need to be. The heater is a bonus! That's fine for me. Rest of my thought goes into other areas of life, thankfully the Fiat doesn't demand too much money, attention or thought!

Each to their own, but yeah, quite aware that pro-Fiat opinions aren't as welcome on here as I thought!

AndyRKett said:

Not being funny, but you're deliberately missing the point, or rather dodging the question.

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Not really: you can hardly compare a small car to 1 that costs more than a lot of houses. As per usual, an innocent opinion has turned into an almighty lecture from mastermind. That happens to several people on this forum, I notice...

You’re rather missing the point. My BMW can do 143 mph. I genuinely can’t remember the last time I went above 80. On my commute to and from work I limit myself to 60, but will pop up to 70 for 30 seconds or so to overtake HGVs.

This isn’t about power or else I’d have chosen a normal 320d with 20 more bhp, it’s not about proving anything or else I’d have chosen the luxury or m sport specs with some big 18 or 19” wheels. As has been shown with MEP and his Prius, cars fill niches and what’s good for you may or may not be good for others. I like my small Fiats, they’re great around town, but one you get out of town something a little bigger is a better bet.

Amusingly enough the BMW costs less to service than our 500 ?

puntofan01 said:

Not really: you can hardly compare a small car to 1 that costs more than a lot of houses. As per usual, an innocent opinion has turned into an almighty lecture from mastermind. That happens to several people on this forum, I notice...

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Rather than moaning why not actually listen to what’s been said. Get your bum down to any place that sells EVs and give one a go. If the i3 has maybe 20 more miles of range I’d probably have one now.

I don't have a problem with electric cars. All I originally said was that there's aspects of a (currently) conventional car that I would miss. The problem I have is with other people using that as an excuse to start hurling abuse at me.

puntofan01 said:

Not really: you can hardly compare a small car to 1 that costs more than a lot of houses. As per usual, an innocent opinion has turned into an almighty lecture from mastermind. That happens to several people on this forum, I notice...

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No no, that is exactly my point, you are of the belief that there is nothing better than your car, I’m asking you to justify that opinion.

Better isn’t about speed or style, you can have the prettiest car in the world but if the engine is rubbish and it constantly breaks down then it’s obviously not going to be a better car than something that doesn’t look as good but is reliable.

You’re making a statement that your punto provides more driving pleasure than any other car with a automatic gearbox and saying without a manual gear box you would never get the same amount of driving pleasure.

So it doesn’t matter what I offer up for comparison in that case because your belief is your manual punto would always best any automatic.

So regardless of cost, you’re saying your manual provides more driving pleasure than car that costs a much as a house, doesn’t matter if the car costs £500 or £500,000 because your statement was that you’d not get the same driving pleasure from any automatic.

So is your car better than a Porsche or a Ferrari for driving pleasure? How about a Chiron or how about a Mercedes SL? What about Ford Focus with an auto box to how about a VW polo. Better yet what about a grande punto with an autobox, can you say that you would not get the same driving pleasure from one of those?
I can guarantee a 500 abarth with an MTA gear box would be 10 times a much fun and infinitely more pleasurable to drive than your punto.


The point here is that you have absolutely no experience to base your opinion on so it doesn’t matter what car I offer up for comparison, does it !

If you had anything to back up your opinion or even the ability to argue/stand by your belief, you’d not be getting a lecture would you.

The thing is you’ve very little experience of different cars.

I’ve always been one for manual cars too, but having driven a couple of automatic 3 series estates I really did want one. You get to concentrate on pointing the car in the right direction and going faster or slowing it down rather than having to stir about in the box for a cog.

Go and actually drive some different cars before saying that you don’t like them.

I drove a car worth over a quarter of a million quid a few months ago for work. The power, the refinement, the road presence! I couldn’t see myself wanting one, but if I won euro millions and 250k was just pocket change...

puntofan01 said:

I don't have a problem with electric cars. All I originally said was that there's aspects of a (currently) conventional car that I would miss. The problem I have is with other people using that as an excuse to start hurling abuse at me.

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Again it was you who kicked off the abuse calling me a muppet I seem to recall.

You don’t play the victim when you started the fight.

If I was of the financial means and inclination to buy an Aston Martin, I'd want 1 of those with a manual gearbox too. And I would not want to drive a Grande Punto automatic. I'd imagine I'd enjoy some automatics, but I'd still miss the manual.

AndyRKett said:

Again it was you who kicked off the abuse calling me a muppet I seem to recall.

You don’t play the victim when you started the fight.

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And if you hadn't felt the need to start trying to pick holes in what I said in the 1st place, I wouldn't have light heartedly called you a muppet.

puntofan01 said:

If I was of the financial means and inclination to buy an Aston Martin, I'd want 1 of those with a manual gearbox too. And I would not want to drive a Grande Punto automatic. I'd imagine I'd enjoy some automatics, but I'd still miss the manual.

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Have you ever tried an automatic for any length of time? Further to that have you tried a decent automatic?

No. Plenty of people aren't bothered about an automatic.

puntofan01 said:

No. Plenty of people aren't bothered about an automatic.

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So you’ve not tried it, but you know you wouldn’t like it... wow.

Come on guys, enough, this is going nowhere. We now have several pages of squabbling to no avail.
Just be happy with what you've got.
And be happy in the knowledge that if a good auto comes up for sale at the right price, puntofan01 won't be competing with you for it.


I might.

To summarise: I haven't driven an automatic, but I do know that I enjoy physically operating a clutch pedal and a gearstick.

Who would have thought that people would have such a problem with that?!

puntofan01 said:

To summarise: I haven't driven an automatic, but I do know that I enjoy physically operating a clutch pedal and a gearstick.

Who would have thought that people would have such a problem with that?!

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There’s no problem, but to criticise with no knowledge is just silly.

puntofan01 said:

To summarise: I haven't driven an automatic, but I do know that I enjoy physically operating a clutch pedal and a gearstick.

Who would have thought that people would have such a problem with that?!

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It’s more the fact that because of this you believe that this is a superior method of driving a car and therefore don’t want/have no intention to want to drive an automatic.

You come across as ‘this is what I know and I don’t need/want to know anything else’. It is an I ncredibly narrow minded and ignorant view to take, and worse still you push your belief without any experience or knoledge as if it’s known fact.

puntofan01 said:

However: the point you are constantly missing is that any auto removes the job of physically changing gear yourself.

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Not so, if you didn't spec the fully auto option in the mk1 Smart Fortwo you still had to change gear manually yourself even though you had no clutch pedal.

puntofan01 said:

I live in the real world

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So do most other people. Luckily everyones world is different or it'd be very boring.

puntofan01 said:

I'd imagine I'd enjoy some automatics, but I'd still miss the manual.

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You've still not advised exactly what it is you'd miss however. Is it using your hands, using your left foot, holding revs high

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Not so, if you didn't spec the fully auto option in the mk1 Smart Fortwo you still had to change gear manually yourself even though you had no clutch pedal.



So do most other people. Luckily everyones world is different or it'd be very boring.



You've still not advised exactly what it is you'd miss however. Is it using your hands, using your left foot, holding revs high

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I never knew that about the Smart car.

And I think it's probably the gearshift action I'd miss most. It's hard to explain, but there's just something about it I really enjoy. Plus I do like the feeling of control I have with the clutch pedal.