Volkswagen emissions scandal

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Volkswagen emissions scandal

Errrrrrr because the technology is nit quite there yet, plus diesels are dirty.

People will always travel, you won't stop that.
If CO2 emission and other emissions weren't of importance then this whole thread wouldn't have any reason to exist........

You've clearly now reached the point of digging yourself out of a hole.

As per usual, I make a valid point, and you 2 deliberately miss it.
 
Just to address this comment as if missed it.

1. You didn't say people had to justify but until I did justify my neighbours reason for having a Range Rover your refused to believe their was a justifiable reason to have one.

The working life of a car has a huge impact on its overall carbon footprint, a small car that gets scrapped after 10 years will have a huge carbon foot print compared to a big 4x4 that gets scrapped after 30 years, you basically have to produce 3 cars compared to the one big 4x4.

Finally though I might finally have a little money for the last 15-20 years I've had more than my fair share of crappy old cars non of which were very green but they needed to do a job, however all of them had a higher tax rate than the majority of modern cars. The most efficient was my 1.3 diesel punto which I bought specifically because it was very cheap to run while I went back to university and was living on a monthly income of about £500 to pay all my bills and food and fuel. So I definitely have a very good idea what it is to not be able to afford an expensive or new car. What I don't agree with is while the rest of the world has to pay tax based on CO2 emissions, why should people who can't afford to buy a newer car be exempt from the same restrictions as the rest of us. So no one has to justify what car they drive as far as I'm concerned but they need to suck it up and pay the costs the rest of us have to and if they don't like the costs or can't afford to pay them for what ever reason, they need to get a different cheaper car or get the bus.

With your 1st comment, I don't think anyone can seriously justify owning a car like that, (I'm not convinced about your neighbour) but if they want 1, they have to accept it's expensive to tax.

With your last comment, you do a very good impression of someone who couldn't give a toss about how much other people have to struggle, as the important person is fine. Pull the ladder up, etc.
 
Well, the people who buy very large cars, and then drive them shockingly badly. I see large 4x4s being parked in decidedly dodgy manners. A better way of describing the people that give large cars their bad reputation is as not having driving capabilities that reflect their bank balance, lol!

:doh:
 

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THANK YOU!!!!!!!! That is the whole point I have been trying to make throughout this whole discussion, and a large part of the reason I think it would be a good idea for the tax system to be based on engine size.

So again I ask, what has engine size got to do with emissions, my Prius has a much bigger engine than your GP, but half the emissions output - so why should I be paying more tax than a more polluting car :confused:

So the 360hp BMW i8 would have a much higher car tax than your grande, despite producing only 49g/km of CO2 only 36% of the CO2 output from your old punto.

:yeahthat:

That's what CO2 emissions targets exist for...

But what relevance have they got if you're taxing on engine size and not emissions :confused:

This is the point that YOU are missing!
 
THANK YOU!!!!!!!! That is the whole point I have been trying to make throughout this whole discussion, and a large part of the reason I think it would be a good idea for the tax system to be based on engine size.

I couldn't agree more with this comment.


I want on honest answer in relation to this question, not so I can criticise you but to understand your logic behind this.

Let's say as an example based on what you say - tax increases per cc size of the engine based on 0.1 increments, so -

<1.0cc - free road tax
<1.1cc - £20
<1.2cc - £40
<1.3cc - £60
<1.4cc - £80
<1.5cc - £100

List can carry on with the assumption obviously that the biggest engines get charged a hell of a lot more.

Let's say this starts straight away and affects every single car on the road.

Take your own car, a modest supermini with a low powered underperforming 1.4 engine with a pedestrian 77bhp doing 60 in 12.8 seconds with a quoted c02 of 134 and 49mph - by the table I constructed above you will need to pay £80 a year to tax it.

In comparison let's take a Fiesta 1.0 black/red edition. This has a modest sized 1.0 engine, but this produced 138bhp it does a claimed 60mph in 8.7 seconds, 104 co2, and returns 62mpg - this will be completely free to tax.

I now want you to explain why you would happy with your Punto to be paying road tax of £80 when it offers no where near the performance, emissions or MPG of the example given?

Would this be fair to you?
 
I want on honest answer in relation to this question, not so I can criticise you but to understand your logic behind this.

Let's say as an example based on what you say - tax increases per cc size of the engine based on 0.1 increments, so -

<1.0cc - free road tax
<1.1cc - £20
<1.2cc - £40
<1.3cc - £60
<1.4cc - £80
<1.5cc - £100

List can carry on with the assumption obviously that the biggest engines get charged a hell of a lot more.

Let's say this starts straight away and affects every single car on the road.

Take your own car, a modest supermini with a low powered underperforming 1.4 engine with a pedestrian 77bhp doing 60 in 12.8 seconds with a quoted c02 of 134 and 49mph - by the table I constructed above you will need to pay £80 a year to tax it.

In comparison let's take a Fiesta 1.0 black/red edition. This has a modest sized 1.0 engine, but this produced 138bhp it does a claimed 60mph in 8.7 seconds, 104 co2, and returns 62mpg - this will be completely free to tax.

I now want you to explain why you would happy with your Punto to be paying road tax of £80 when it offers no where near the performance, emissions or MPG of the example given?

Would this be fair to you?

He did mention an "equivalency formula" I missed that as well having questioned the same thing but this thread has rather gone on so missing that is forgivable! Apparently it's something to do with taxing output as well?
 
Another one to throw in - Mazda Sky Activ technology. No downsizing involved here, but achieve low c02 emissions and good mpg on the 2.0 engine, based on my table why should they pay £200 a year or what ever it is on my table???
 
puntofan01 tax system may be a mad idea but taxing by emissions is also a mad idea the only difference is 1 is thought up by dude on the internet the other is thought up by people paid loads of money to come up with it.

unless we all get taxed for other environment issues, bonfire tax, land fill tax and so on co2 tax on cars will never be fair we either all pay the same or all pay nothing will be fair. his plan may be flawed but his reason for wanting change is valid attacking him all the time isn't fair.

will these people who claim they bought their vw because of low co2 now not drive them until they are fixed? i don't think so some how.
 
puntofan01 tax system may be a mad idea but taxing by emissions is also a mad idea the only difference is 1 is thought up by prat on the internet the other is thought up by people paid loads of money, looking at a wealth of research and climate information with eu laws and targets to stick to; to come up with it.



unless we all get taxed for other environment issues, bonfire tax, land fill tax and so on co2 tax on cars will never be fair we either all pay the same or all pay nothing will be fair. his plan may be flawed but his reason for wanting change is valid attacking him all the time isn't fair.



will these people who claim they bought their vw because of low co2 now not drive them until they are fixed? i don't think so some how.


I've corrected the first part of your statement, if these policies can be thought up by any random person off the internet then why bother paying people lots of money to do it?

We do get taxed for land fill its part of what your council tax pays for and a large majority of areas have local laws in place to limit bonfires and the burning of things while encouraging the used of recycling centres.

The new system of car tax will see every one pay the same which is something puntofan objects to, while ignoring the £310 a year premium for cars costing over £40k (so those who can afford to pay have to pay more) and new car buyers have to pay a premium for the emissions of the car, so the most polluting have to pay up to £2000 extra to take their gas guzzling 4x4 home with them. How is any of that unfair to anyone?

The £40k car tax premium only applies for the first 5 years and it's not a tax on emissions its a tax purely on the rich, I'm sure the research shows that after 5 years these people go out and buy another car and the used car market with those less well off pick up the old cars cheaper as that's all they can afford.

VW owners who 'claim' to have bought their cars for the low CO2 outputs; as you put it, still have to get to work and by all accounts there are 11million of them, what economy can survive if 11 million people didn't turn up for work tomorrow? That would cost he world economies billions per day in lost work and wages. People still have to pay bills and take the kids to school, doesn't mean they haven't been left angry or disappointed buy the situation.

The only reason you stick up for puntofan is that both of you frequently post idiotic things then back each other up, thankfully though two wrongs don't make a right.
 
I've corrected the first part of your statement,
Very mature playground name calling :rolleyes:
We do get taxed for land fill its part of what your council tax pays for and a large majority of areas have local laws in place to limit bonfires and the burning of things while encouraging the used of recycling centres.
But no one pays more or less depending on how much they fill it or how many bonfire they light or in many places if they just put every thing in the same bin like they do with co2 for cars.


The new system of car tax will see every one pay the same which is something puntofan objects to,

We already established this is a lie and will only be for new cars that the majority of members wont be driving for many years by that time the system probably will change again
 
Very mature playground name calling :rolleyes:



But no one pays more or less depending on how much they fill it or how many bonfire they light or in many places if they just put every thing in the same bin like they do with co2 for cars.









We already established this is a lie and will only be for new cars that the majority of members wont be driving for many years by that time the system probably will change again


Ooooh multi quote

Point 1: yep ;) the rest of the correction is valid though you seem to have ignored that bit.

Point 2. You live in a big house, you produce more waste you pay more council tax. If you have a company and produce trade waste you have to pay a company to empty your bin it's not just taken away by the council. In essence you pay one way or another for the rubbish you produce.

Point 3: they do not historically change car tax, even with the Vw scandal the government have said they won't change cars tax bands if found to produce more CO2. So if they introduced any idea it would only apply to future cars, and if they change it again in the future so what the point is what ever you pay now you're stuck with they will never change the tax on your croma unless in the future they decide to increase the price that the different bands pay along with inflation. People have bought cars and committed them self to a budget for the car they run how would you feel if the government decided all estate cars have to now pay and extra £400 car tax a year?
It's much better for everyone to say ok in the future all estate cars will have to pay £400 extra a year but everyone who had one at the moment can carry on as normal.

This is why you and puntofan support each other because you both post such stupid things
 
Point 2. You live in a big house, you produce more waste

that not true at all and still doesn't change what people do with that rubbish you have just made my point more valid.

A couple in their 80's in a 5 bed house living off wiltsure farm foods that they eat from the plastic they come in and recycle, are still paying the same council tax for rubbish as the same size house next door with 6 kids 2 adults and they have lots of friends over every weekend and have a bbq or party.
 
that not true at all and still doesn't change what people do with that rubbish you have just made my point more valid.



A couple in their 80's in a 5 bed house living off wiltsure farm foods that they eat from the plastic they come in and recycle, are still paying the same council tax for rubbish as the same size house next door with 6 kids 2 adults and they have lots of friends over every weekend and have a bbq or party.


An exception to the rule but certainly not the norm
 
I was gonna post something about this but after reading what can only be described as.. fallout. From posts I'll just keep reasonably quiet.

But regardless of how tax is worked out/affected by this, I'd be curious if the cars are recalled how many actually do get brought back in. I know as long as I didn't end up paying more tax, I wouldn't be massively bothered. At least not until it potentially came to selling it again. Dunno whether that would be impacted either. :confused: :confused:
 
I was gonna post something about this but after reading what can only be described as.. fallout. From posts I'll just keep reasonably quiet.

But regardless of how tax is worked out/affected by this, I'd be curious if the cars are recalled how many actually do get brought back in. I know as long as I didn't end up paying more tax, I wouldn't be massively bothered. At least not until it potentially came to selling it again. Dunno whether that would be impacted either. :confused: :confused:


The recall has affected used values, and I would imagine used car guides would state that potential owners to check the recall has been done.

I would imagine a good proportion of the affected owners don't know much what has happened.

It would appear the 1.6tdi is the most affected model possibly requiring new injectors - which are expensive.

They also have not said how the updates will affect fuel consumption and performance, we already know the government have they won't penalise owners.
 
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