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Interesting discussion!

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Ben R

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Hi all! After an interesting discussion with friends the other night, I wondered what people thought on here? The topic in question should smokers pay extra national insurance for healthcare? I'm a smoker(unfortunately) & I think that we shouldn't, simply because where should the line be drawn? As I already pay the average amount, I don't know much about the salary bands, as most people why should I have to pay extra for healthcare? The last time I visited the doctor was about seven years ago for fume fever! So I'm not exactly taxing on the NHS. Opinions anyone?
 
Yes you should... you're more likely to need to use it, you have to pay extra when you pay for medical insurance, why not pay more to the NHS. If you drink the same should apply, IMO Vat should vary on products depending on how bad they are for your health (as with the case with Cigarettes and Alcohol), this should be extended to other products (this may not please the ladies) such as chocolate, snacks etc... Infact this also happens to a certain extent by not paying VAT on essential food items.

Basically you chose to smoke, hopefully you won't have any ill effects, and you'll give up...

One more point I feel I should raise, whilst you are allowed to smoke in public, smokers should be obliged to pay extra to the NHS to deal with the effects of somebody breathing your smoke.
 
The thing is is I already pay what you do maybe more so why should I get a different level of healthcare than you? Should people with eating disorders be made to pay more as well? The point being this isn't just about the financial side of things it's also about human rights, choice & consequence.
 
You should pay because cancer caused by smoking is exceptionally expensive to treat effectively, whats more, if you don't want to pay more... stop smoking, and you'll have the benefit of living longer. Also people rarely intentionally do things that make them ill (in your example of somebody with an eating disorder... ok there exceptions as with everything in life). Smoking has a huge array of negative side effects more even than alcohol. Who said you'll get a different level of healthcare, everybody should receive the same, you'll just be paying more for it because you smoke.

If you think smoking is a human right... sorry, I don't agree. I do however agree with you that it is all about choices and consequenses... the concequence of smoking is that you're much more likely to get cancer so you should pay more. But at the end of the day it is all about money, if it were free to treat cancer patients, then there wouldn't be an issue.

And before anybody assumes I am discriminating against people who suffer with cancer, I'm not... I'm discriminating agains people who have cancer due to smoking. You may argue that thet may have got cancer anyway, which is true, but they wouldn't have had to pay extra to treat it.

EDIT: Just read fish dudes comments, lol, but actually why not, I'd rather that healthcare was properly privatised... but not the way it is in america (i.e. health care should be 'not for profit'), and certainly not the way it is now.
 
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Don't smokers in this country pay far more for fags than anywhere else anyway ?

I always thought that was to go towards the NHS treatment that a smoker would possibly require ? And if that's the case then they should have to pay no more.

I don't smoke no more, thank god, no actually he ain't getting no credit for that one, I gave up all on my own :D
 
Alex said:
You should pay because cancer caused by smoking is exceptionally expensive to treat effectively, whats more, if you don't want to pay more... stop smoking, and you'll have the benefit of living longer. Also people rarely intentionally do things that make them ill (in your example of somebody with an eating disorder... ok there exceptions as with everything in life). Smoking has a huge array of negative side effects more even than alcohol. Who said you'll get a different level of healthcare, everybody should receive the same, you'll just be paying more for it because you smoke.

If you think smoking is a human right... sorry, I don't agree. I do however agree with you that it is all about choices and consequenses... the concequence of smoking is that you're much more likely to get cancer so you should pay more. But at the end of the day it is all about money, if it were free to treat cancer patients, then there wouldn't be an issue.

And before anybody assumes I am discriminating against people who suffer with cancer, I'm not... I'm discriminating agains people who have cancer due to smoking. You may argue that thet may have got cancer anyway, which is true, but they wouldn't have had to pay extra to treat it.

EDIT: Just read fish dudes comments, lol, but actually why not, I'd rather that healthcare was properly privatised... but not the way it is in america (i.e. health care should be 'not for profit'), and certainly not the way it is now.
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But that's the point mate, if we're already paying the same amount then we should recieve the same care. Also I didn't say smoking was a human right I actually meant the right of free choice. If the truth be known I wish I'd never started, & not being funny, it's typical of a non smoker to think you can give up just like that.
 
I gave up a few good years back!

I had smoked previously to that, then given up, then started my current job in 2000 - and at my desk was an ashtray, and the boss smoked, and the girls downstairs smoked, so I restarted :eek: - BUT now all stopped, unless I have quite a few beers, and someone flashes me one :p....

BUT yes, the indirect taxation on the cost of the cigarettes is surely why smokers pay more tax!

Oh, and don't confuse National Insurance with Income Tax - they are all but the same :)
 
Ben R said:
it's typical of a non smoker to think you can give up just like that.
Click to expand...

Don't jump to conclusions about these things... I never said anything about giving up just like that, whats more some people can, some people can't, or to that matter that I was a non-smoker. You've asked my opinion and I gave it, please don't be offended by my opinion... as steve will say "they're like arse holes, everybody has one"

EDIT: on the tax front, I think it is true what stu said, but I bet that money get diverted to the westminster electricity and heating bill (i.e. anywhere but where its supposed to go).
 
i think people who do things bad for there health is enough.

you want to shorten your life, kill your kidneys and destroy your lungs its your choice

but don't encourage other people to follow suit.

thats my dicision on the matter

blunt and short sorry
 
Alex said:
Don't jump to conclusions about these things... I never said anything about giving up just like that, whats more some people can, some people can't, or to that matter that I was a non-smoker. You've asked my opinion and I gave it, please don't be offended by my opinion... as steve will say "they're like arse holes, everybody has one"

EDIT: on the tax front, I think it is true what stu said, but I bet that money get diverted to the westminster electricity and heating bill (i.e. anywhere but where its supposed to go).
Click to expand...



I'm not offended at all mate, but I stand by what I said! :chin: People who have never smoked don't understand or realise what it's actually like.
 
my 2p's

Smokers shouldn't have to pay extra. They pay so much tax on cigs already, i'm sure they more than pay for any care.

Re giving up etc, imo you're a weak person for starting in the first place - it's not my fault you started, less of the "typical of non-smoker" type comments, i don't care how hard it is to give up.
 
Ben R said:
But that's the point mate, if we're already paying the same amount then we should recieve the same care. Also I didn't say smoking was a human right I actually meant the right of free choice. If the truth be known I wish I'd never started, & not being funny, it's typical of a non smoker to think you can give up just like that.
Click to expand...

Most smokers wish that they had never started. I was lucky - I did give up just like that. Nothing like a convert for be passionate - I think smoking should not be allowed in public at all anywhere. I hate walking along a pavement behind someone who is smoking - can't breathe fresh air without pulling in a load of smoke and all in the alleged open fresh air.

I don't think it feasible to discriminate against smokers apart from any other self damaging group in the NHS - otherwise you would have to load all the other groups as well - could get very complicated. Best way is to tax the source ie increase the cost of tobacco even more and hive off the extra revenue to fund specifically smoking related diseases treated by the NHS. Smoking does cause self inflicted diseases and can directly harm others and should be regulated accordingly.
 
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