AndyRKett said:

Same here but recently saw two in the local shopping center parked opposite the electric charging bays (I think are possibly free to use) which where empty at the time, which I think demonstrates the owners confidence in the technology

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Or they're not a member of the scheme.

I was tempted the other day in central London to part the PiP in a EV spot, and just connect the lead even though it wouldn't have been charging as I'm not a member of their scheme, just to use the space :devil:

I saw 7 all lined up outside the green mall at once, they've got electric vehicle bays in two other malls as well so chances are there were more about. However we're in the catchment area for Nissan Sunderland staff so you see alot of new nissans of most types anyway cos staff and family get very cheap leases.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Or they're not a member of the scheme.

I was tempted the other day in central London to part the PiP in a EV spot, and just connect the lead even though it wouldn't have been charging as I'm not a member of their scheme, just to use the space :devil:

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Having done a little research chapelfield uses source east which apparently costs £10 a year to be a member, today there was a black Nissan leaf charging in their car park when we parked up and when we left a white leaf so after years of not being used it seems to suddenly have a following.

At least another 2-3 Nissan leafs parked else where in the car park, also saw a white tesla driving about Norwich a few of weeks back, because Norwich is so rurally isolated it's idea for EVs as people don't travel far out of town

AndyRKett said:

Having done a little research chapelfield uses source east which apparently costs £10 a year to be a member

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Yes, a very good deal indeed if you're a regular user imo, especially as it can also be used in certain parts of London iirc and other cities that they've teamed up with. £10 a year and unlimited electricity, although in Norwich a lot of Source East chargers are in with restricted areas (dealership car parks, Norwich station is a classic, behind staff parking spaces so you can never get to it!) or chargeable parking zones.

Not bothered signing up myself as I hardly use central Norwich myself, and would need to buy a type 1 to type 2 charging lead at about £160-£200. I've worked out a charge saves me about £1 in fuel each time, so you can do the math on it not being viable for me with the PiP, however if I were a full EV owner I'd be snapping up membership.

I'm hoping in 18 month as I move closer to Norwich an early Leaf may be 'boys toy' money and possibly get one for all my local trips and either keep the PiP for long distance, or sell it - would need to add up the sums at the time. But like you say, if you live within 10 miles of the Norwich circle then an EV should easily be feasible for most peoples regular journeys.

Too bad you guys don't live here in California, and get to have a 500e.... very fun, flooring it and terrorizing grandmas here in San Diego.

Basically I am saving $400 a month since going to the 500e - $200 a month savings in electricity (yes I get a different rate because I have an electric car) about $160 a month in gas, and at least $40 a month in insurance and maintenance costs...

Greg Elmassian said:

Too bad you guys don't live here in California, and get to have a 500e.... very fun, flooring it and terrorizing grandmas here in San Diego.

Basically I am saving $400 a month since going to the 500e - $200 a month savings in electricity (yes I get a different rate because I have an electric car) about $160 a month in gas, and at least $40 a month in insurance and maintenance costs...

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From what I understad fiat take a $10k loss per car sold on the 500e, and with a list price of $32,500 if it were to come to the UK The likely cost of the 500e would price it well out of the market for the UK more than twice the cost of any standard 500 mode.

It's a shame because while the rest of the UK manufactures seem to want to get in on the EV market and develop the technology fiat just don't really seem interested
The 500e is really only viable where huge government incentives are involved as they are in California, and even then it's taking a big loss for marketing reasons for fiats other brands to be allowed to be more polluting, essentially the only reason for the 500e is so someone else can drive a Ferrari or Maserati

StevenRB45 said:

Gotta say seeing alot of leafs recently, they've had to start parking in the normal parking bays at the metrocentre as the electric vehicle bays are full.

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the "electric avenue" scheme , gave some excellent lease rates on the Leaf,

looked into it myself, but changed job / commute, as the initial -best rates- finished

the scheme is for electric supply network tests,
before everybody drives electric.., certainly seems to need more investment already..,

Charlie

I'm wondering if all these EVs are part of the problem we're having with supposed brown outs with the grid this winter

If I ever want to drive electric....bumpercars at the funfair...!!!

Peter Pick-Up said:

If I ever want to drive electric....bumpercars at the funfair...!!!

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http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a6358/first-look-tesla-model-s-p85d-dual-motor/

Well, I now live just outside Norwich and I'd be happy to buy a Leaf as my next car if the (Green) Council here fits charging points everywhere that would be available to non-green cronies and apparatchiks. I note that Nissan is close to developing batteries, cheaper batteries apparently, with a much improved charge time and range, some say over 200 miles. For most of us this would put an end to the want for petroleum fuelled cars. All we now need is for this to actually happen, and non partisan local government officials who genuinely care about the environment and not self aggrandisement. Ha Ha Ha! Some hope....

I have 2 other "normal" cars. This car is actually not only paying for itself, but due to the rebates in electricity, I'm saving $400 a month, and my car payment is $136 a month (lease).

So I don't drive more than 50 miles from home, and everything works out. I would not buy an electric car for my only vehicle.

Greg

Ulpian said:

Well, I now live just outside Norwich and I'd be happy to buy a Leaf as my next car if the (Green) Council here fits charging points everywhere that would be available to non-green cronies and apparatchiks. I note that Nissan is close to developing batteries, cheaper batteries apparently, with a much improved charge time and range, some say over 200 miles. For most of us this would put an end to the want for petroleum fuelled cars. All we now need is for this to actually happen, and non partisan local government officials who genuinely care about the environment and not self aggrandisement. Ha Ha Ha! Some hope....

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Charging points supplying power from nuclear or coal/ oil burning powerplants...???
It's only shifting away problems...and you're fooling yourself.
Electrical cars=dead end.

Peter Pick-Up said:

Charging points supplying power from nuclear or coal/ oil burning powerplants...???
It's only shifting away problems...and you're fooling yourself.
Electrical cars=dead end.

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in a large city, you can imagine the air quality benefit,

but YES - the pollution is just being made elsewhere

Charlie

Peter Pick-Up said:

Charging points supplying power from nuclear or coal/ oil burning powerplants...???
It's only shifting away problems...and you're fooling yourself.
Electrical cars=dead end.

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With the big shift in the UK toward renewable sources, the amount of energy produced in polluting fossil fuel burning stations is dropping every year not to mention many of the coal and gas fired plants are reaching the end of there lives electricity is getting much cleaner and even nuclear although not truly clean, doesn't put CO2 and other pollutants directly in the air.

In the US many with electric cars are having solar stations installed to charge them, completely cutting out the need for an external electricity supply.

Your argument it one sceptics used to shout about 5 years ago, but times are changing rapidly and electric cars are selling at an enormous rate

AndyRKett said:

but times are changing rapidly and electric cars are selling at an enormous rate

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In Mainland Europe, less than 1% carsales are electrical mistakes....bought with lot's of government tax money..
So the UK is building nuclear powerplants everywhere, or what?
What about nuclear waste, maybe Loch Ness is deep enough...???
( Northern) Ireland has dumping space enough as well...!!

Peter Pick-Up said:

In Mainland Europe, less than 1% carsales are electrical mistakes....bought with lot's of government tax money..
So the UK is building nuclear powerplants everywhere, or what?
What about nuclear waste, maybe Loch Ness is deep enough...???
( Northern) Ireland has dumping space enough as well...!!

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Well firstly we're not mainland Europe but 2.4% of our car sales are electric, and increasing year on year. Many main land eu countries have no incentive to buy electric cars, we do here a £5000 grant per electric car however analysis has shown this has little effect on sales as electric vehicles are still vastly expensive compared to regular cars even with the government footing a big chunk of the bill.

Currently the UK has plans to build 1 nuclear power plant which won't be operational till 2020, and with no firm plans to build any more. In the mean time though almost all of out 16 current nuclear plants will have reached the end of their working lives and shut down, so by 2023 including the planned new power station we will have a grand total of 2 nuclear power stations...... As for 'nuclear waste 'dumping' we have our own nuclear fuel waste reprocessing facilities, and suggesting to an English man to dump nuclear waste in Scotland isn't perhaps going to achieve the reaction you wanted? Especially as we don't currently have site to dispose of nuclear waste, instead we're in the process of finding a site before construction can begin.

The alternatives to nuclear are gas coal or renewables, as gas and coal are being legislated out more and more every year so renewables are becoming used more and more, meaning for every year that passes electric vehicles will be powered more and more from renewable sources, meaning less and less pollution.

Though as it stands to fill my car with fuel requires a huge drilling platform powered by oil generators to pump oil out of the ground and on to a huge ship which then burns thousands of gallons of oil to transport it to the UK where it's pumped into a refinery where the petroleum and diesel is distilled from the crude oil, before being pumped into lorrys and driven all over the country... All of that produces huge amounts of pollution just to produce a tank of fuel long before that fuel ever gets to the point of being put into an engine to be turned into tail pipe emissions. Electricity like oil has production costs but it lacks those final tail pipe emissions. So as I said to begin with your argument for simply "shifting" the pollution else where, is incorrect and out of date

Most Easterly Pandas said:

The only thing that puts me off with range extenders is the fact that they're not very efficient on the MPG front when used in range extender mode.

Its for this reason the Prius PHV uses petrol to run the engine and the engine to move the car rather than using the engine to recharge the battery to then move the car with electricity, as its more energy efficient this way. Each time you convert energy is looses energy potential.

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I know this was ages ago but re-read this with the new activity.

I prefer range extenders because when you are talking about the car as a utensil/white good which is what I see electric cars as they suit it more. To sell it to me at least it should have the characteristics of a utensil. I want a maintenance free car, tyres, brakes and suspension components maybe change the oil in the range extender engine every 5 years. A mobile phone with wheels if you will, no gearbox, as close to a maintenance free engine as possible. If it doesn't have that i'll buy a normal car and continue to take pleasure in simple mechanics that work.
The prius concept is too complicated, it's not as brilliant as it could be as an electric car because it has a 1.8 boat anchor and gearbox, it's not as efficient as it could be as petrol car because of the batteries and motors. I understand it's how the things work together that make it work but it only just works now (can it really save enough petrol to make up for the difference between it and a similarly sized and equipped 18 grand hatchback?) if battery technology makes one leap it becomes irrelevant. Yes a range extender also has a petrol generator that is less efficient but you use it occasionally it never powers the car so you miss out on a gearbox, it always runs at a constant speed and optimum revs so less wear and tear. To me it's a tidier solution for occasional petrol powered use although I understand your annual mileage would not suit it. Mine would I use one tank of petrol every 20 days on a car that returns about 40mpg.

StevenRB45 said:

I know this was ages ago but re-read this with the new activity.

I prefer range extenders because when you are talking about the car as a utensil/white good which is what I see electric cars as they suit it more. To sell it to me at least it should have the characteristics of a utensil. I want a maintenance free car, tyres, brakes and suspension components maybe change the oil in the range extender engine every 5 years. A mobile phone with wheels if you will, no gearbox, as close to a maintenance free engine as possible. If it doesn't have that i'll buy a normal car and continue to take pleasure in simple mechanics that work.
The prius concept is too complicated, it's not as brilliant as it could be as an electric car because it has a 1.8 boat anchor and gearbox, it's not as efficient as it could be as petrol car because of the batteries and motors. I understand it's how the things work together that make it work but it only just works now (can it really save enough petrol to make up for the difference between it and a similarly sized and equipped 18 grand hatchback?) if battery technology makes one leap it becomes irrelevant. Yes a range extender also has a petrol generator that is less efficient but you use it occasionally it never powers the car so you miss out on a gearbox, it always runs at a constant speed and optimum revs so less wear and tear. To me it's a tidier solution for occasional petrol powered use although I understand your annual mileage would not suit it. Mine would I use one tank of petrol every 20 days on a car that returns about 40mpg.

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A Prius is a large family car, so comparable to a Vectra and the like. Starts at £21k for entry level, not sure about other manufactures but I suspect about £17-£20k for an entry diesel model. The diesel will probably do 50mpg average over its life of motor way driving and the Prius around 70mpg at 5p a litre less for petrol.

Doesn't take long to see why so many are taxi's etc are prius now. Add in that Prii regularly are doing 300k miles without issues, low maintenance costs due to no belts being changed and brake pads doing 100k miles - vs dieses with DPFs to do wrong etc. I suppose you could save £3k and get be petrol model equivalent but then be doing only 35-40mpg which widens the fuel costs gap considerably.

Also how's it complicated? You put it in drive and go. No more complex than and EV with range extender tbh.

And I'd be surprised if a range extender doesn't need a service at least bi-annually for oil changes etc.

AndyRKett said:

Well firstly we're not mainland Europe.

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This is an international forum, with members all over the world.....