dtimmins1985 said:

decreased shirts

Click to expand...

Sounds like they shrunk!

Have a new account due to an issue with the forum and hotmail accounts.

So I need to post five times before I can update my Bravo thread.

This new identity is linked to my old Live account so if anyone needs to reach me it's better to use private messages on the forum as I hardly ever use my back up email address.

I'm not grumpy or happy about it so I thought I would use up my five posts here.

Na-na, n-na, na.

Hey, quick, come look at this new guy!

Talking to the owner of a 7 year old VW Tiguan today at the Fiat show room. Asked him amongst other things if he ever had any issue with the DPF. He said the only times he ever had a problem was when he filled the car up with cheap diesel. As soon as he went to more premium / non independent or bargain stations he said it’s been plain sailing and no issue whatsoever.

Made me wonder if everyone I know with DPF issues is just cheap-ing out on their diesel - especially here in N. Ireland where across the border you can get it cheaper. It wouldn’t surprise me. He also said people are mixing red diesel with stuff to remove the dye and that’s ruining engines too.

Anybody on here think that the theory could be right?

Did not make me grumpy nor smile as I drive a much more reliable petrol engine ;-)

Well on a non DPF car cheap diesel generally gives more smoke, so a DPF will clog faster on cheap diesel. Contamination might affect the catalytic regeneration of the DPF as well. The other thing is there are different DPF systems so you may not be comparing like for like

StevenRB45 said:

This is receipty..my cars pet receipt..its been on my aircon radiator for about 3.5 months and is the only receipt I cannot lose.

Is taking the front bumper off an extreme measure?

View attachment 182438

Click to expand...

Just in case anyone was concerned about his welfare...receipty is just fine.

SB1500 said:

Talking to the owner of a 7 year old VW Tiguan today at the Fiat show room. Asked him amongst other things if he ever had any issue with the DPF. He said the only times he ever had a problem was when he filled the car up with cheap diesel. As soon as he went to more premium / non independent or bargain stations he said it’s been plain sailing and no issue whatsoever.

Made me wonder if everyone I know with DPF issues is just cheap-ing out on their diesel - especially here in N. Ireland where across the border you can get it cheaper. It wouldn’t surprise me. He also said people are mixing red diesel with stuff to remove the dye and that’s ruining engines too.

Anybody on here think that the theory could be right?

Did not make me grumpy nor smile as I drive a much more reliable petrol engine ;-)

Click to expand...

I must admit, I personally think that a lot of the trouble people have with EGR valves and DPFs is down to them buying a diesel when a petrol would be better for their actual motoring needs.

A friend of mine has never owned a petrol car, and granted, he commuted to university that was roughly 25 miles from his house, but he's always worked in the town 7-8 miles from home. Not a problem in his old 1998 Saxo 1.5D or the 2002 Corsa 1.7 DTI that followed it, but when he had his (presumably Euro5) 2007 Corsa 1.3 CDTi 95bhp, the shortish journies caused the EGR to get clogged and fail. He later replaced that with a fairly early Alfa Romeo Brera 2.4 JTD, and I think the EGR has gone wrong on that too since he's had it.

puntofan01 said:

I must admit, I personally think that a lot of the trouble people have with EGR valves and DPFs is down to them buying a diesel when a petrol would be better for their actual motoring needs.

A friend of mine has never owned a petrol car, and granted, he commuted to university that was roughly 25 miles from his house, but he's always worked in the town 7-8 miles from home. Not a problem in his old 1998 Saxo 1.5D or the 2002 Corsa 1.7 DTI that followed it, but when he had his (presumably Euro5) 2007 Corsa 1.3 CDTi 95bhp, the shortish journies caused the EGR to get clogged and fail. He later replaced that with a fairly early Alfa Romeo Brera 2.4 JTD, and I think the EGR has gone wrong on that too since he's had it.

Click to expand...

Totally agree. Where I live, the nearest city is 5miles away. Most people work 2 miles away in the next TOWN. Let alone the city.. and of course, they all NEED big Passat’s... Octavia’s and Leon’s with 1.9 TDi diesels - dirty big, inefficient and Error prone and expensive machines when honestly... what, a Punto with a 1.4 petrol... Too small? Then say an Astra - big enough for a family of 3 kids - with maybe even a 1.6 petrol? Biggest car for 90% of the population and more power than ANYONE needs really.

I mean, why there’s no law on it I don’t know. If it’d save lives.

Someone I follow who had a rather unique car build totalled their car when a tyre blew out on the motorway, gutting to see someone's hard work end up like that.

On the plus side they got a Fiat 500 Pop, so I'm excited to see what happens to it!

SB1500 said:

Totally agree. Where I live, the nearest city is 5miles away. Most people work 2 miles away in the next TOWN. Let alone the city.. and of course, they all NEED big Passat’s... Octavia’s and Leon’s with 1.9 TDi diesels - dirty big, inefficient and Error prone and expensive machines when honestly... what, a Punto with a 1.4 petrol... Too small? Then say an Astra - big enough for a family of 3 kids - with maybe even a 1.6 petrol? Biggest car for 90% of the population and more power than ANYONE needs really.

I mean, why there’s no law on it I don’t know. If it’d save lives.

Click to expand...

Diesel does suit a lot of people's driving style though. Most people would view whacking 4-5k on the rev counter on a family car as abusive/a bit uncouth. But as petrols have developed they've gone to 16v and vvt this has generally pushed the power up the rev range. Your average vvt petrol has peak torque at about 4k and peak power somewhere near 6k. Your average diesel has peak torque about 1800 rpm peak power somewhere around 2.5k.

If you want a car that doesn't require any thought from a to b diesel is a better choice (as long as it isn't terrible psa dv6 engine in which case walking is a better choice). Most people like being able to overtake without dropping 2 gears and being able to lug 5 people up hills more easily.

A petrol will do these things but unless it's a turbo it takes a lot more thought/Is much slower if you don't use it properly. I'm used to Japanese VVT cars you can batter them all day long and they don't care as long as you warm it up first, but most people don't want to visit the top end of the rev counter, especially with passengers on board, it does make you look like a jeb end.

Petrol turbo is nearly as error prone as diesel turbo...so er take your pick.

I think a lot of people do drive cars bigger than what they actually need. Personally, as much as I do like the old Bravo and the new Tipo, I couldn't justify owning a car that size when I've never needed a car bigger or more powerful than my Grande Punto. Fair enough, it's upto the individual what they drive, but a lot of people do have unnecessary cars. Sticking with my mate as an example, don't get me wrong, that Brera is a nice car, but rather overpowered and needlessly large engined for the use it gets.

For me personally, it probably helps that for the last 12 years, my parents have owned nothing but superminis, the 1st of which proved every bit as good for a small family as an Escort.

puntofan01 said:

I think a lot of people do drive cars bigger than what they actually need. Personally, as much as I do like the old Bravo and the new Tipo, I couldn't justify owning a car that size when I've never needed a car bigger or more powerful than my Grande Punto.

Click to expand...

The problem with that sort of thinking is that it quickly becomes hypocritical, I,e why a grande punto and not a panda? Why a panda and not one of those tiny micro cars or a smart car, why can't you just use a scooter or get the bus.....

People will drive what they want to and when they work hard and pay for it out of their own pocket it shouldn't matter what they drive to anyone else really.

I'm not a big fan of large 4x4s but they do have their place, as do sports cars and even super cars, if someone else is paying the bills then it doesn't matter to me, if I had to pick on any one group it would be people carries, there are far more of them about, hugely less efficient then their normal proportioned alternative, weight more, and the majority of owners only have one or two children, doesn't exactly warrant a bus to move the family about.

The DPF issue is very much related to the type of use the car gets and when you buy a new car the specifically ask and warn you that if you do only short journeys then a DPF fitted diesel might not be appropriate and suggest a petrol alternative.

That said the possibility is future cars being fitted with petrol particulate filters. So the problem will move to all but electric cars.

My issue isn’t the money as such. It’s the reality of what our love of cars is doing to the planet. And not even for the love of the rainforests, but for what it’s doing to people like you and me in the smoggy cities like London and worse. Those are the things that could wipe out humanity if we don’t get our acts together.

And whilst driving a small car around doesn’t necessarily stop this issue, driving the smallest car for your needs certainly does. It’s taking a little bit of responsibility at the personal level.

Overtaking? What do you need to over take? You’ll easily overtake slow lorries at 56mph, slow tractors and farm vehicles, horses, cyclists? And you don’t even need to break the speed limit to do it. Even in a 1.0 you could do that.

I think the issue comes in that “I want my BMW fast enough to overtake the other guys BMW” on the motorway... and being able to pull out in front of people etc.. drive away fast and what not.

I have to drop to fourth in the Panda when fully laden to get up steep hills, sometimes 3rd.. and even when I’m kicking the sh#t out of it to keep up at 60 I’m probably still burning less fuel, less Co2 and what not at the same time. It’s not the worst thing in the world when me, three others and a bunch of junk in the boot is being propelled at 60mph without sweating! Personally for me, that fact is good enough.

Sure, the reality is people who have the money should get what they want and enjoy it, and they’re certainly not bad people for doing it. I love seeing people who work hard and earn their money enjoy it in weird and wonderful ways. But I think people need to realise the bigger picture and drop the ego. It won’t happen.

But it sounds like myself and puntofan01 have grown up with some of the smallest cars around and have seen first hand how families can get by with them.

Personally I take pleasure in getting by with the least power and ego possible. If more other people did the same I think the world would be a slightly better place.

On the DPF thing, I’ve known a few relatives now with different makes of Diesel engine from Zafira, Yaris and Leon ... they all drive like maniacs .. high mileage jobs that involve home visits and whatnot and despite the dealer saying to floor it on the motorway two out of three opted to delete the DPF altogether.....great for the environment and air quality alright. The third is just holding on and vowing to never buy another diesel again after seeing the likes of Toyota struggle with it....of course Toyota dont have the luxury of the EU letting them get away with murder as Vauxhall (Opel) and Seat (VW) - disgusting the whole situation.

I’m glad petrol AND diesels days are numbered. Even if it means compromising or taking the bus.

Anyway. Went a bit off topic!

AndyRKett said:

I'm not a big fan of large 4x4s but they do have their place, as do sports cars and even super cars, if someone else is paying the bills then it doesn't matter to me, if I had to pick on any one group it would be people carries, there are far more of them about, hugely less efficient then their normal proportioned alternative, weight more, and the majority of owners only have one or two children, doesn't exactly warrant a bus to move the family about.

Click to expand...

I thought that, but then my sister had 3 young kids. They had a Leon, which is similar to what my dad has in concept when we were young in the 80s (escorts and astras) but it just plain wasn't big enough. You can't fit 3 child seats side by side in a normal car. You can in a full size 4x4, but that's just as vast and even less efficient. Also there is now a requirement for booster seats until the age of 12 and they can't be backless until the age of 4..so you are going to be having child seats forever..then there's double buggies..and sports paraphernalia..and that your children may wish to bring friends..and you still need to put stuff in the boot. So they now have a Ford Galaxy

My personal pet peeve..sports suvs. I want a sports car off road battering ram please...preferably one that on a good day even with a diesel engine does 25mpg.. nonsense.

AndyRKett said:

The problem with that sort of thinking is that it quickly becomes hypocritical, I,e why a grande punto and not a panda? Why a panda and not one of those tiny micro cars or a smart car, why can't you just use a scooter or get the bus.....

Click to expand...

I do like Pandas, and it's only the relatively low NCAP score and my liking of the Grandes' design that stopped my buying 1 back in 2014. Certainly, I would consider a newer shape 1 to replace my Grande when the sad day comes that it has to go, especially if I'm lucky enough to be living by meself by then. As it is though, I'm still doing a low annual mileage in a fairly small (especially by modern standards!) car that's capable of a real world 45+ mpg.

I do understand where you're coming from though.

SB1500 said:

My issue isn’t the money as such. It’s the reality of what our love of cars is doing to the planet. And not even for the love of the rainforests, but for what it’s doing to people like you and me in the smoggy cities like London and worse. Those are the things that could wipe out humanity if we don’t get our acts together.

And whilst driving a small car around doesn’t necessarily stop this issue, driving the smallest car for your needs certainly does. It’s taking a little bit of responsibility at the personal level.

But it sounds like myself and puntofan01 have grown up with some of the smallest cars around and have seen first hand how families can get by with them.

Personally I take pleasure in getting by with the least power and ego possible. If more other people did the same I think the world would be a slightly better place.

Click to expand...

Again you can't get on a soap box and start preaching the virtues of small cars and the environment, based purely on the need for everyone to drive small cars, a small car doesn't automattically mean a green or economic car. I grew up at a time when all cars would have a visible cloud of smoke following them about where ever they went from the tail pipe, as cars developed they got better, they introduced catalysts (everyone ranted about them) they introduced EGR (everyone still rants about. They now have DPFs and most manufacturers are going the small turbo route, every step the emissions get less and less, the economy goes up and the cost of the technology comes down.

So if people feel so concerned for the the environment then they should be driving new cars not just small cars.

One of my brothers just bought a new Mercedes GLC (medium sized 4x4) and if you look at the figures it produces less CO2 than a 10 year old grande punto or panda. (And weights about 1000kg more than the panda)

Much bigger car, much faster car, yet lower tail pipe emissions, also safer, with better crash protection for occupants and pedestrians, made with materials which are now designed to be more easily recycled and designed to have less harmful materials.

The upshot here is that a new fat bloated SUV driven by a bloke in a suit with no patience, is now more environmentally friendly than an old small Fiat.....

You also state a case for Ego, ego isn't about having the biggest and best and can just as easily apply to those who believe they are saving the planet with a small old car, or preaching about organic, home made, vegan friendly hand knitted yogurt while wearing clothing made from recycled bin bags. (Not talking about you just painting a picture of a certain stereotype)

It's far easier and better just to let people get on with their own choices than worry yourself about them, as it's guaranteed there isn't a BMW forum where someone is saying

"you know what annoys the hell out of me, is those people in 10 year old fiats, who do they think they are hey?"

They really couldn't care less.

AndyRKett said:

One of my brothers just bought a new Mercedes GLC (medium sized 4x4) and if you look at the figures it produces less CO2 than a 10 year old grande punto or panda. (And weights about 1000kg more than the panda)

Much bigger car, much faster car, yet lower tail pipe emissions, also safer, with better crash protection for occupants and pedestrians, made with materials which are now designed to be more easily recycled and designed to have less harmful materials.

The upshot here is that a new fat bloated SUV driven by a bloke in a suit with no patience, is now more environmentally friendly than an old small Fiat.....

Click to expand...

Got to ask though, how many mpg does he ACTUALLY get out of the merc? Given how farcical the official mpg and emissions figures are these days.