OP
OP
I only took safety in to consideration, and possibly insurance. You're right, it would never get passed.
Good debate though.
Raise Driving Min Age to 21
- Thread starter Magic Johnson
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Raise Driving Min Age to 21
I only took safety in to consideration, and possibly insurance. You're right, it would never get passed.
Good debate though.
I agree, good debate. I do take on board the very different slant some view this thread. In all seriousness though, I'm surprised how others take a personal view, & feel they are targeted as bad drivers. This is just not the case. We are all pigeon holed, one way or another, when it comes right down to it.
Right then (cracks knuckles) here goes nothing - groans from forum members logging off.
The first thing you must accept that, to mis-qoute Sting, "There is no monopoly of common sense, on either side of the age related fence."
When I first started driving, in my Mum's Viva HC, I was 17 and although I grew up in quite an affluent, aspirational area, more than a few of my friends had access to a car, although 17 year olds in general didn't. The roads were much quieter than now and most of my mates drove their parents' cars so perhaps we/they felt some kind of responsiblilty to them that they wouldn't have felt in their own motors.
I got my first car in 1978, a Vauxhall Chevette with a monumental 58bhp to play with. Almost the same as a much more modern Punto 1.2 and yet it took about 15 to 16 seconds to get to 60, much slower than a Punto. I once had a race (yeah I know) with what I thought was a 1.1L Mk 1 Escort. It turned out to have had the engine replaced with a 1.6 Mexico engine. To say I was comprehensively trounced is an understatement. In fact, the tyres crippled so much under cornering I got a lecture from my Dad about kerbing the tyre.
What does all this mean? Well, we all did things when we were younger that we wouldn't do now. I could tell you one or two other things that might surprise those who've read and taken part in my posts.
So what has happened in the meantime? I suppose the easy answer is that I got older and grew up. But when did that happen? Well, it certainly didn't happen over night. It didn't happen when I turned 18, and it didn't happen when I became 21 either. I probably became more mature day by day and it wasn't a consistent development either. I became more reliable at work but was still trying to jump on any female I could find.
We don't suddenly become more mature all round; male testosterone doesn't miraculously diminish when we get the key of the door, so although there may be merits to raising the driving age, to what level do you raise it? Recently I had to attend two damage only RTCs within 40 hours of each other on the same bend involving cars travelling in the same direction and both driven by people who worked within a mile of where the crash happened so knew the road well. Both cars crashed on a 40 limit road by skidding across the opposing carriageway, hitting the kerb, rotating through 180 degrees and ending up in a ditch. Only luck dictated that there were no cars coming the other way; or a 44 tonne truck, or even worse a cyclist or pedestrian.
Both drivers were in their 30s. The first words out of both their mouths were: "I wasn't going fast" which virtually guarantees they were. So is 35 too young to learn to drive?
From a personal perspective as a Driving Instructor and with the Police I would rather there was some form of graduated licence. For example, as a new driver, regardless of age, on passing the present driving test he/she would be limited to 1.4 litres and 70bhp. In addition they would have to stay within 25 miles of the home address and not be able to use motorways. After taking a kind of IAM/ROSPA test, more powerful cars could be driven and motorways used.
That in itself cannot guarantee safe drivers, only individual responsibility can do that.
As for the young vs old question.....this is more like "Voluntary Manslaughter" as opposed to "Involuntary Manslaughter." One may result in a death because one person decides to teach another a lesson by putting a Nitro-Glycerin (heart treatment) tablet in a mate's cup of coffee to make him sick as a joke. Another person dies because his friend is old and accidentally puts a Nitro-Glycerin tablet in the coffee instead of saccharin. A death still results but the cause is different. One is a result of a malicious act, the other a careless mistake.
I hope johnw doesn't read that last paragraph, he'll have something to say about my analagy.
The first thing you must accept that, to mis-qoute Sting, "There is no monopoly of common sense, on either side of the age related fence."
When I first started driving, in my Mum's Viva HC, I was 17 and although I grew up in quite an affluent, aspirational area, more than a few of my friends had access to a car, although 17 year olds in general didn't. The roads were much quieter than now and most of my mates drove their parents' cars so perhaps we/they felt some kind of responsiblilty to them that they wouldn't have felt in their own motors.
I got my first car in 1978, a Vauxhall Chevette with a monumental 58bhp to play with. Almost the same as a much more modern Punto 1.2 and yet it took about 15 to 16 seconds to get to 60, much slower than a Punto. I once had a race (yeah I know) with what I thought was a 1.1L Mk 1 Escort. It turned out to have had the engine replaced with a 1.6 Mexico engine. To say I was comprehensively trounced is an understatement. In fact, the tyres crippled so much under cornering I got a lecture from my Dad about kerbing the tyre.
What does all this mean? Well, we all did things when we were younger that we wouldn't do now. I could tell you one or two other things that might surprise those who've read and taken part in my posts.
So what has happened in the meantime? I suppose the easy answer is that I got older and grew up. But when did that happen? Well, it certainly didn't happen over night. It didn't happen when I turned 18, and it didn't happen when I became 21 either. I probably became more mature day by day and it wasn't a consistent development either. I became more reliable at work but was still trying to jump on any female I could find.
We don't suddenly become more mature all round; male testosterone doesn't miraculously diminish when we get the key of the door, so although there may be merits to raising the driving age, to what level do you raise it? Recently I had to attend two damage only RTCs within 40 hours of each other on the same bend involving cars travelling in the same direction and both driven by people who worked within a mile of where the crash happened so knew the road well. Both cars crashed on a 40 limit road by skidding across the opposing carriageway, hitting the kerb, rotating through 180 degrees and ending up in a ditch. Only luck dictated that there were no cars coming the other way; or a 44 tonne truck, or even worse a cyclist or pedestrian.
Both drivers were in their 30s. The first words out of both their mouths were: "I wasn't going fast" which virtually guarantees they were. So is 35 too young to learn to drive?
From a personal perspective as a Driving Instructor and with the Police I would rather there was some form of graduated licence. For example, as a new driver, regardless of age, on passing the present driving test he/she would be limited to 1.4 litres and 70bhp. In addition they would have to stay within 25 miles of the home address and not be able to use motorways. After taking a kind of IAM/ROSPA test, more powerful cars could be driven and motorways used.
That in itself cannot guarantee safe drivers, only individual responsibility can do that.
As for the young vs old question.....this is more like "Voluntary Manslaughter" as opposed to "Involuntary Manslaughter." One may result in a death because one person decides to teach another a lesson by putting a Nitro-Glycerin (heart treatment) tablet in a mate's cup of coffee to make him sick as a joke. Another person dies because his friend is old and accidentally puts a Nitro-Glycerin tablet in the coffee instead of saccharin. A death still results but the cause is different. One is a result of a malicious act, the other a careless mistake.
I hope johnw doesn't read that last paragraph, he'll have something to say about my analagy.
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agree with the 70hp, not with engine size should be 1.2
saying you can't stray X amount of miles from your home is daft.
first, cost of other transport means
second, motorways are safe, once shown how
third why not add a G sensor like mentioned previously, combined with an avrage speed track, stray above an avrage of 80 for more than 5 mins get an advisory point 10 advisarys = one point
link gps together so if 2 cars are racing against each other it will be flagged for a review with parents first time.
a second test is a bit much should put it udner tuition with a diffrent instructor
oh well, we don't live in an ideal world
one of the first things i did when i got my car was go though a give way sign, on a busy road going into leeds (neer crownpoint), (mum shat herself)
but instead of saying you can only travel within a 25 mile radius why not make a drive time restriction. to give drivers a chance to breath
make it vary according to the type of road
M 1 hour
country roads 20 mins
residential 30 mins
dule 30 mins
with an accurate warning
I learned to drive back in the day in an Austin 1300,gear stick was like stirring porridge. First car, bought with mate was a Ford popular mustard in colour. 0 to 60, what the the hell is sixty. My point.............Most of the young team don't give a **** about cars back in the day, why would they? I can understand why they just want to pass their driving test & get some wheels, obviously something half decent.
Times change, but it's going to take nothing short of a miracle to make new drivers accept restrictions that they feel are unfair & impractical in their eyes.
Times change, but it's going to take nothing short of a miracle to make new drivers accept restrictions that they feel are unfair & impractical in their eyes.
I can see the benefits in what you say, but what happens if a young person's parent wants to drive the car? What happens if a driver loses track of time and doesn't have enought time to get back home? Having a 17 year old girl stuck on a motorway hard shoulder miles from home, or even worse on a country road miles from anywhere is not necessarily better than having her driving too fast.
What I didn't say, and given what you've posted above, you may get what I meant to say is that given the amount of acceleration and lack of roadholding we had then, you had to learn to plan your overtakes and to make "Slow in, fast out" your mantra. The extra performance and improved passive safety of modern cars may contribute to some of the crashes younger drivers have. There was also more of a mystique surrounding driving then and an acceptance that you couldn't just stuff it into a bend and hope to come out the other side. There was no Top Gear telling you about the latest hyper cars, and when it did start, it was more of a factual consumer programme with Noel Edmonds waffling on about the latest Datsun Sunny or Austin Maxi.
Cars have moved on, the technologies have moved on but the drivers really haven't
Entirely my point, but back in the day...your Mother, Father, Uncle, Aunt..etc could tell you what they thought on your driving style shall we say, you took this on board or paid the consequences. Even people outside the family circle could report back about your driving skills, or lack of.....
There are a few small changes I would like see done regarding things at the moment, but in truth this just wont happen.
As said the group would just move up, that's pretty simple the insurance companies don't like losing money
So in your eyes (pretty crap vision then aye?) anyone under 21 should not be aloud to drive, in that case i would lose my transport, which one makes me money and two keeps me employed tell me who here would employ a mechanic without a license ? i know wouldn't which would also make studying motor vehicle pointless if you want to get into the trade at a younger age
I passed first time after 19 lessons 3 months after i was 17 and i know im not perfect, everyone speeds everyone takes a risk at some point, if they say otherwise there pretty much just lying
One major reason i am working so slowly on my project car is if i tried to insure it now it would be £LOL amounts of money, also i get stereo-typed into being a boy racer who will kill people and punch puppies and kick kittens in there eyes, so much for me happily modifying a car without being done over by "the man"
i cant believe no-one has bought up motor bikes or mopeds
Bit of a rant but meh, raising the age limit would do more then just get people off the road it would severely limit the amount of younger people getting into trades that require them to move around for work, electricians, gas, plumbers, mechanics
In my eyes most of you on here are mardy old sods who moan at too much and who are passed the so called "high risk" group, so whats it to you if someone else loses there option to freely travel
Ash
OP
OP
I don't see why exceptions couldn't be made, if you want to be a mechanic or a delivery driver or something then you'd have to do an even more stringent test, coupled with lots of theory.
Welcome to Magic Hitler's Britian. Lol.
Welcome to Magic Hitler's Britian. Lol.
that has honestly got to be one of thee most stupid things ive ever heard, so i can get off with murdering a few people if i put down career choice of a murderer?
you cant really have rules for one and rules for another
Ash
OP
OP
Nice. You could be the chair on question time with those debating skills.
