How to handle this eBay complaint?

Xen · Jun 27, 2010

Sold a power steering computer on ebay last week. It was removed from a faulty column, but prior to selling it, i installed it on a working column and ran diagnostics on it... It showed torque sensor errors (from the previous column.) I cleared these and roadtested with the computer in the working column. It was fine. Got back and ran diagnostics again and there were no new errors, so I could assume the computer was fine.

I mentioned this in my advert and reminded buyers that replacing the computer would not fix problems caused by faulty sensors or motors. I also had no returns on my advert. It sold, and today I get a message back saying the computer is faulty. The terminals are corroded and the inside shows signs of water damage. Admittedly, i didn't have the unit apart, but I had no reason to with the computer working 100% on each test i tried.

Now I'm wondering how I should handle this. I'm thinking his original problem was not computer related and hence replacing it solved nothing. Because despite the water damage (if there actually is any) that computer worked perfectly when tested. Would it be reasonable (bearing in mind the advert was no returns) to ask him to send the unit back to me and offer to refund him only if the computer fails diagnostics and roadtest? How would you guys handle it?

custard · Jun 27, 2010

for a refund the buyer will have to return it to you(at their cost)
however you would be expected to refund their full original payment
thats if it goes to a dispute

Most Easterly Pandas · Jun 27, 2010

Ah, I had similar crap with a head unit I sold that was fully functioning, but buyer just didn't like.

I got away lightly by just offering to refund a percentage

I'd advise the seller that you'll refund minus their return cost, and your origional postage cost.

When returned then refund the purchase price and open a 'cancel transaction' case to get your final purchase fee returned.

Not sure how it will go if they try opening a dispute once they've returned the item and you've refunded just the purchase price though.

Xen · Jun 27, 2010

Well I haven't offered a refund just yet as I'm certain the computer is fully functional, despite this "evidence of water damage" hes found. I don't think I should have to refund if the unit is in full working order and instead the fault is elsewhere on the column ,because thats not my problem- buyers were warned it would not solve steering problems caused by bad sensors or motor in the advert.

Anyway, I've attempted to resolve the issue first with this email...

I didn't personally have the unit apart since it flew through testing, so haven't seen the evidence of water damage. However, this didn't affect the function of the unit. It still passed diagnostics and functioned 100% on a road test in a good column prior to sending. Are you sure the computer is faulty and not your sensors or possibly the motor? What are your symptoms? What error codes are present? Is it possible to send me an image of the water damage?

If worst comes to worst, I'll ask him to return the unit and say I would give a refund if a new diagnostics and roadtest proved the unit was infact faulty (which I know it isn't.)

johnson550 · Jun 27, 2010

I would have thought he should have returned it if it wasnt working but once hes opened it up he could have done anything to it. I wouldnt refund anything just because hes interfered with it.

Garree001 · Jun 28, 2010

Would also depend on how the item was described. Do you have the original description?

Most Easterly Pandas · Jun 28, 2010

johnson550 said:
I would have thought he should have returned it if it wasnt working but once hes opened it up he could have done anything to it. I wouldnt refund anything just because hes interfered with it.

Thats a good point. Where is the water damage? Internally? If so ask the buyer why they didn't tell you it was fault first rather than taking it apart and prodding it with a screwdriver etc.

sludgeguts · Jun 28, 2010

Make all the right noises and tell him you'll refund as soon as you've verified the smart water code on the unit and the unique chip codes inside the unit :devil:

Xen · Jun 28, 2010

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200484401853

Hes now sent a new reply that seems to completely ignore anything I said in my last email. Hes now just asking for a full refund. Seems like he was just replacing the computer on pot-luck and since it hasn't solved the problem, wants his money back. And I KNOW that unit is fully working.

How does the following reply sound? Something along the lines of...

Obviously I'll need to have the unit back to retest it and comfirm it as faulty, as the units were roadtested and check on the diagnostics computer when dispatched and were 100%. If you could return the unit to me and I will retest it on diagnostics and roadtest it again. If it is faulty, I will send you another unit out to replace it free of charge.

That way he has nothing to gain if he is lying.

Garree001 · Jun 28, 2010

Item was received as described - in working order, with no opportunity of returning it. The fact that the person has had it apart, would void any warranty you'd get from a store/supplier, so he can't get you there.

If you're certain that the item works, you have little to worry about. He's obviously trying to replace cheaper bits of the steering column, hoping one does the trick. I would decline his request for a refund until the unit's been returned to you for inspection. If you find that it works fine, and are sure it's the same one you sent out, he can be out of pocket for the unit, the postage to you and the postage back to him again if he still wants it.

If he still has a bug up his arse, let him get eBay on the case - they usually find in favour of sellers with good feedback anyway.

Doofer · Jun 28, 2010

I'd just refund it on return and test myself, if his feedback is reasonable. Don't get a load of hassle and bad feedback for £25.

gazzaman2k · Jul 3, 2010

tell him to go **** himself hes opened the unit up so voided all warrenty with it, he should have contacted you first for advice

jenks69 · Jul 3, 2010

gazzaman2k said:
tell him to go **** himself hes opened the unit up so voided all warrenty with it, he should have contacted you first for advice

:yeahthat: he's done himself no favours by opening it.

Xen · Jul 16, 2010

OK, so being nice, I told the guy to send the unit to me so I could test it. If it was faulty, I'd send him a replacement. I get the unit back with a letter basically saying, 'the units faulty, we don't need another unit now so please just refund me.'

Anyway, I put the unit on diagnostics and I found errors logged regarding power steering motor. Bearing in mind the units went out clear of errors and roadtested. So this is where I am with my email...

Finally managed to get the unit back on a diagnosics computer today (sorry for the delay,) and retested it. It functioned perfectly and we were able to retrieve all parameters from it. However, the error log revealed 3 error codes. The units were sent out with clear error logs, so the errors on your unit have occurred since fitting in your column. Two of the error codes were flagged as "Fatal" and "Light ON." These were C1007 and C1016, both of which refer to faults with the power steering motor, more specifically an invalid signal returned from the motor. The final code was P0000, which basically indicates that the unit is no longer detecting the recorded faults. In other words, since removing the unit from your column and powering it up here in a working column to test it with the computer, it is no longer detecting a faulty motor. The problem with your ePAS is due to a faulty electric motor, and not with the steering computer. Another roadtest has confirmed that the unit is fully working. JPGs of the diagnostics readouts can be emailed to you if you wish. We also took a photo of the unit on test in a working column.
Since the item was not faulty and my listing specifically stated; "Please be sure this is the part you need, and be aware these will not fix power steering problems caused by faulty sensors or motor", I think it is unfair I should have to fully refund you for an item that isn't actually faulty, and is infact as described (fully functional.) The units were not sold on a trial basis.

Now, what would be fair to do next? Bearing in mind, I now have the unit he's paid for (so its technically still his.) What would be a fair compromise?

gazzaman2k · Jul 16, 2010

partial refund restocking fee of 15% taken off

stephen01 · Jul 16, 2010

Part of me would want to say, tough luck unit is okay blah blah, however ebay is crap to sellers nowadays... i would charge him a re stocking fee of 50% or offer to send it back to him (at his cost) so he can sell it on himself...

at the end of the day why should you have all the hassle of having to send the unit out, have it back, test it, ebay fees etc etc all the time that has been wasted and you are still out of pocket? don't sound fair to me...

Focus Owner · Jul 16, 2010

hes opened it apparently.
send it back to him at his cost. you dont want it its dirty

out of interest how long would error codes be stored in the thing?
cause mine has failed ages ago after been knocked and reworked after a few starts
and failed with flat batt the knocks were ages ago tho

The Rat · Jul 20, 2010

I would contact ebay dispute forum and let them deal with it. I had a similar problem when I sold my wifes car. Usual advert, no refunds, test pilots etc etc...guy turns up drives the car, show him all paperwork inc FSH, he phones garage they confirm car is always maintained by them. He is more than happy pays the money drives the car away. He calls me 3 days later saying the cambelts snapped and now wants his money back

I offer to get the car checked to see what damage has been caused and he says no. Just wants his money back.....He is told where to go, and after much discussion, I finally see the car myself. Long story short, he had taken the car home checked the oil, water again????? and had left the oil cap off. Realises what he has done, fills the engine almost to the top with oil, and he has damaged the engine. The cambelts are surprisingly ok...
The following day, there is an email from ebay with a dispute saying that the car was faulty when he drove away, blah blah blah.....firtunately I had witnesses and all paperwork so he was told by ebay the dispute was basically ******.
So I would go to there dispute centre and let them deal

Xen · Jul 21, 2010

Thats unlucky The Rat, can't believe the guy had the cheek!

The Unknown - As far as I know, errors remain there permanently until cleared, even if their no longer present. If the error is there intermittently, it is flagged as such. If its no longer there at all, it is followed by a P0000 code to show that.

Well, finally got it all over and done with. Since the unit is infact fully working, and since I didn't really want to involve eBay (since they can be arsey about this sort of thing with sellers) I offered to send the unit back to him at his cost, or refund him the cost of the unit, less postage and all fees. He snapped up the offer, so tbh I reckon he knew it was probably another fault and not this unit all along

Oh well, you live and learn. It will be relisted with a screenshot of diagnostics to show it working and listed with strictly no returns

arc · Jul 23, 2010

Perhaps charge him for the diagnosing of his faulty PAS as well?

How to handle this eBay complaint?

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