Technical Struts - Mcpherson

Currently reading:
Technical Struts - Mcpherson

Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
640
Points
234
Hey guys this is more of a curiosity. But wondering if anyone knows why Mcpherson style struts aren't that accessible in the UK? Also can u put.mcpherson struts onto cars that have the usual (disassemble) style of strut?
 
Err...your car has mcpherson struts, like vertically most cars on the road...can buy them anywhere.
 
Err...your car has mcpherson struts, like vertically most cars on the road...can buy them anywhere.
yeahthat.gif



Can you provide more details, picture or link, to what you want to fit?
Doyou mean coil-overs?
 
I've googled them and don't see the point TBH?

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/monroe-quick-strut-complete-strut-assembly-171946/15380048-P

Its not like you're in the habit of swapping your front suspension out very often to get the benefit...most people do it once per car if at all.

Even if you were its hardly a time consuming process on standard parts - i swapped my front springs out last weekend and it took me 1 hr 30 start to end and that included cutting the spring and repainting it.

Spring compressors are only 15-20 quid - you'd be better just investing in tools rather than some gimmick of a shock IMO
 
I've googled them and don't see the point TBH?

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/monroe-quick-strut-complete-strut-assembly-171946/15380048-P

Its not like you're in the habit of swapping your front suspension out very often to get the benefit...most people do it once per car if at all.

Even if you were its hardly a time consuming process on standard parts - i swapped my front springs out last weekend and it took me 1 hr 30 start to end and that included cutting the spring and repainting it.

Spring compressors are only 15-20 quid - you'd be better just investing in tools rather than some gimmick of a shock IMO


I'd guess it's a combination of labour costs and health and safety issues. The complete strut linked to is less than an hours labour at most garages so is very cost effective. If you do a H&S analysis on taking a spring off a strut you end up having to put it in a safety cage, adding to cost and making the job harder. I'd go for it at that sort of price, but it looks like one for a 500 is about £175 in the UK so not so cost effective
frown.gif
.


Robert G8RPI.
 
I've googled them and don't see the point TBH?

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/monroe-quick-strut-complete-strut-assembly-171946/15380048-P

Its not like you're in the habit of swapping your front suspension out very often to get the benefit...most people do it once per car if at all.

Even if you were its hardly a time consuming process on standard parts - i swapped my front springs out last weekend and it took me 1 hr 30 start to end and that included cutting the spring and repainting it.

Spring compressors are only 15-20 quid - you'd be better just investing in tools rather than some gimmick of a shock IMO
It's not about thinking they are better in anyway. Just a matter of easier to install and safer. I know compressors but also heard the horror stories behind using them. I know load of people use compressors but that worry of them slipping of the spring is what gets me, so I just wish they were more readily accessible if you wanted to change struts 'the easy way'
 
Some springs compressor are better than others.

I could see something slipping using this style;
03054_n1500_1.jpg


I would stick to the one that hook round each coil like this;
68615_N152iu.jpg


Thats the kind i have....£20 pair of Laser compressors me dad bought be to lower my Renault 5...that was 16 years ago now and used on umpteen cars with out any issue.

I think a lot of these storys are internet myth, usually started by people who haven't even used the tools themselves so i really wouldn't worry.

Just show some common sense and you'll be fine;

i.e. have the strut lying flat and not facing directly up at your face, so in the unlikely event of something going wrong, you won't be in the firing line. Its unlikely though...they're not under a great deal force on the likes of a punto compared to a larger car, van etc, not enough to snap or anything like that.
 
I'd agree with the above, I've no worries changing springs on a normal car with the hook and screw type compressors. 3 are better than two but on a Punto two is fine, do the job with the strut horizontal and facing away from you.

I would say though, some common sense is required. If the threaded rods on your compressors is bending or the threads are feeling like they are chewing up, stop!
I tried to use a pair of spring compressors on some 20% uprated Hilux springs a while back, I was still about an inch off with the compressors banana'd and the threads giving up. Very cautiously wound them back and took to a garage to fit spring for me......

Cheers

Ben
 
I'd agree with the above, I've no worries changing springs on a normal car with the hook and screw type compressors. 3 are better than two but on a Punto two is fine, do the job with the strut horizontal and facing away from you.

I would say though, some common sense is required. If the threaded rods on your compressors is bending or the threads are feeling like they are chewing up, stop!
I tried to use a pair of spring compressors on some 20% uprated Hilux springs a while back, I was still about an inch off with the compressors banana'd and the threads giving up. Very cautiously wound them back and took to a garage to fit spring for me......

Cheers

Ben
20180208_134957.jpeg

Hey Ben / anyone else who might know

Hopes your ok mate.

Not sure if filled in but turns put clunking was droplinks. But today I heard a funny rattle and a piece of my spring has broken of the lower half. I was wondering if you know what part this 8s in the pic? Since I got to take apart I want to change that rusty disc part and also a new bolt.

Thanks if you do
 
Bolt is part of the shock and fiat call the washer bit a pad or plate or something. Search for ones from corsa d. £5 ish from vx Vs £15 ish from fiat.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-FRONT-STOP-SHOCK-ABSORBER-TO-WHEELHOUSE-NEW-GENUINE-/152312891001
The nut is a flanged nyloc and will need changing too, they are grade 10 from memory and usually supplied with the shock.
Get a couple of standard nuts of known size and pitch to determine what you need and order grade 10 nylon. Shocks from s4p were a different pitch to OE fiat. Alternatively, as you'll be changing both springs, change shocks too and top mounts if they've not been done. Both are probably on their way and have to be dismantled for spring change.


Cheers

Ben
 
Last edited:
This post contains affiliate links which may earn a commission at no additional cost to you.
Next problem will be finding actual T-Jet springs without a remortgage. All OE replacements I found were spec for std GP that would lift the T-Jet by 10mm and soften the ride despite being listed as compatible. Cross referencing part numbers confirmed this.
 
I've googled them and don't see the point TBH?

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/monroe-quick-strut-complete-strut-assembly-171946/15380048-P

Its not like you're in the habit of swapping your front suspension out very often to get the benefit...most people do it once per car if at all.

Even if you were its hardly a time consuming process on standard parts - i swapped my front springs out last weekend and it took me 1 hr 30 start to end and that included cutting the spring and repainting it.

Spring compressors are only 15-20 quid - you'd be better just investing in tools rather than some gimmick of a shock IMO

Cutting springs a very bad idea.
 
Next problem will be finding actual T-Jet springs without a remortgage. All OE replacements I found were spec for std GP that would lift the T-Jet by 10mm and soften the ride despite being listed as compatible. Cross referencing part numbers confirmed this.

Hey Ben

Sorry but you've got to take time with me lol. When you say std GP??? And are you saying that that these springs are or are not compatible with t jets.
 
Bolt is part of the shock and fiat call the washer bit a pad or plate or something. Search for ones from corsa d. £5 ish from vx Vs £15 ish from fiat.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL...ORBER-TO-WHEELHOUSE-NEW-GENUINE-/152312891001
The nut is a flanged nyloc and will need changing too, they are grade 10 from memory and usually supplied with the shock.
Get a couple of standard nuts of known size and pitch to determine what you need and order grade 10 nylon. Shocks from s4p were a different pitch to OE fiat. Alternatively, as you'll be changing both springs, change shocks too and top mounts if they've not been done. Both are probably on their way and have to be dismantled for spring change.


Cheers

Ben

Hey Ben yeah I would defintaley like to change shocks but it all will come to cost tbf. But I think I will do top mounts and springs for sure.just got to find. I've found alot of Vauxhall corsa D parts.fit fiat. Do you think would be the same for shocks? As usually I've found vauxhall cheaper despite being compatible
 
This post contains affiliate links which may earn a commission at no additional cost to you.
I'm 99% that Corsa shocks will fit however the damping rate may be different. I'm fairly sure Tjet uses a specific shock too, be worth checking eper. I put bilstein on mine not long after I bought it as the suspension felt tired.

Cheers
 
Hey Ben

Sorry but you've got to take time with me lol. When you say std GP??? And are you saying that that these springs are or are not compatible with t jets.

Each spring has a 'spring rate'. This is the force needed to compress it a specific distance. For us older ones, it was rated in lb/in, so an example might be 150lb/in, meaning it needs a force of 150 pounds to compress the spring one inch. I'd expect everything now to be in kg/cm or similar.
The spring absorbs the bump, by compressing. What we call the shock absorber is not really, it is a damper, to prevent the spring continuing to bounce after each bump.
A soft spring gives a soft gentle ride, but allows the car to move a lot. Too much and it will be difficult to maintain a straight line, and passengers will get sick. Too little movement makes the ride harsh, increases shock loadings into the car, can cause it to skip over bumps, but tends to help directional control.
The vehicle manufacturer has spent a lot of time to choose the spring rate, to give a good compromise between comfort and handling. For most cars, we value our comfort. Sporty models are often lowered, to gain handling benefits, but always comfort will be reduced. Again, the manufacturer has spent a lot of time and expense finding a setup that works.

Any metal object struck, will continue to oscillate/vibrate for some time. A spring compressed and then let go has a tendency to extend and contract over several diminishing cycles before coming to rest. This is undesirable in a car, so we fit dampers. These restrict the movement of the spring, so hopefully allowing it to compress, then rebound, and stay, ready for the next bump. The rate of compression damping can be different from the rebound rate, so dampers need to be matched to the springs and the car.

If you fit stiffer springs, without the matching dampers it may be a little bouncy as the spring overcomes the damper. Conversely, softer springs with stiffer dampers may prevent the spring recovering fully before the next bump, so making the next bump harsher, and in some circumstances can 'pump down' until little or no compression is available. (Rare these days)

Whilst The GP and Corsa were developed together, the fine tuning of spring and damper rates were individual to each manufacturer, so whilst parts will physically fit, the results may not be as you'd expect or wish. The weight of the car, and the weight distribution are also important here. If fitting Corsa springs and dampers, the results may be disappointing, but for safety, should be all four corners together. Other parts, such as top mounts and bearings should be identical.

Lowering springs need to still absorb the shock, not transmit it to the car body. Too stiff can lead to body damage such as cracking where the forces are felt, or generally just the whole car creaking as all the welds are under stress.

When the car is lowered, the spring rate needs to increase. The standard spring is selected to allow full movement to absorb the biggest bumps in normal use. This is why a Land Rover is different to your GP, as it expects bigger bumps. So a stiffer spring is needed, but the sums are difficult, as full movement is less, but the bumps on the road the same.

In your case, the T-jet is set lower than a standard GP, so rides a little stiffer. As there are fewer of these, there is less choice in the aftermarket parts supply, as tooling up to make these is less profitable, if at all. Fitting standard springs will set it at the same height as less sporty versions, which may appeal, or be acceptable to you, but may affect value later (if the next buyer notices). If you fit standard springs, you MUST do all four, and dampers as well, or your car could be considered dangerous.

Aftermarket lowering kits can work well if the manufacturer has done his sums, and those kits will be expensive as a result. Cheaper kits are fine if they just mimic the factory 'sport' settings. Others will be harsh at best, dangerous at worst. Most are somewhere in between, just being uncomfortable, but at least the discomfort encourages slower driving.

What is cutting spring interest of learning??
A cheap way to lower the car is to cut the spring to make it shorter. When found by the MOT tester this is a fail. If found by a policeman, it is an offence being in a dangerous condition.
If you shorten the spring without increasing the compression rate, it is likely to bottom out on lots of bumps. When it hits the bump stops, you are no longer in full control of the car, you may lose control and crash. Also more forces are being transmitted to the car body, which as said above, will lead to it trying to fall apart over time. An older car has a head start of course!
The spring ends are sometimes ground flat, to fit their locations, or sometimes left as wound and fit into shaped seats. Unless cut very carefully this is unlikely to be replicated, and a spring not seated properly is always trying to escape.
Hopefully our contributor with the cut springs is saving as fast as he can for some proper lowering springs.

Any modification from standard must be advised to the insurance company. Fitting lower springs and dampers form a sporty model is likely to be more acceptable than an aftermarket set. Advising the insurance of cut springs will render the policy void. Not advising them will also void it, but only after you need to claim. Then comes the prosecution and claims from the other parties.

Sorry for the length of the post, hopefully I've covered everything important. If you're still awake at this point, feel free to ask more.:D
 
T-Jet is 10mm lower than standard GP out of the factory, springs are stiffer too. If you are looking for OE replacement springs, make sure you get the part number for 1.4 and 1.2 NA petrol springs and cross reference as many aftermarket springs listed for T-Jet have same PN as for those models. Only two options there, they will left and soften our cars or sportify the basic models, thinking it'll be the former.

I ended up putting lowering springs on mine as the cost of OE springs was mental. Beware of shocks for same reason as springs.

Agree with Bill, don't put corsa shocks and springs on you may get something you're not expecting in terms of ride although they will physically fit.


Cheers

Ben
 
Back
Top