Hi Guys hope all is well.

Bit of a strange one:

My 2007 1.4 dualogic jumps into neutral occasionally whilst driving facing me to coast to the side of the road. Once stopped if I turn the engine off and on all gears work fine as expected. This problem is causing me massive anxiety and I don't even want to drive it.

No error codes show up on MultiScanECU.

I can replicate the issue everytime by going into 5th gear and flooring the accelerator - this makes it pop out into neutral.

It also seems to happen when in 5th gear and approaching a stop/junction. SO it is definitely a problem of shifting from 5 down. It doesn't always happen and sometimes successfully get down.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Does anyone know what actuator and solenoid are for the 5th gear?

Many Thanks
Mike

Hi there,

you may think as the dualogic being a robot clutching and shifting gears for you, not so complicated:

- One actuator select which group -which fork- to select from (1-2, 3-4, 5-R), that's you going left or right with the lever.
- The second engages the desired gear, you again moving the level forward or backward.
- The third is for the clutch, your left foot.

MIGHT be the hydraulic oil level is too low, assuming the group selector is fully out, the 5th gear engager MAY not fully extend to firmly engage the gear due to low oil ??
I would recommend to check the oil level at the robot...

Regards, Bernie

If someone here helped you understand -or better- fix your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right, it's free and make us happy...

Hey Bernie.

There is a slight weep on the reservoir however when topped up the problem still exists.

I am going to try a fluid change to see if this helps.

I have been driving in manual mode all week using gears 1 - 4 and not had a problem! so it is very frustrating that the majority of it works!

My understanding is that the fluid level has to be checked/topped-up AFTER the pump has filled the pressure accumulator... anybody dualogic guru please correct me if I'm wrong . I believe there is also a "bleeding procedure" on that robot thing ??

Regards, Bernie.

I started to get this happen last Thursday, I travelled at 50 then slowed down to negotiate a roundabout, went to accelerate away and the dreaded beep! With no power, looking at the dash I could see I was in neutral!

Similar thing happened on Friday & Saturday, but today (Sunday) no prpbelms on a 150 round trip - why? Well my theory is that today I didn't have the eco button selected.

On the face of it shouldn't make any difference but I'm thinking the eco button just makes the gears shift quicker, but what if it is confusing the electronics in some way or electrics confusing the mechanics

Hmmm, that eco think is quite interesting ! Would be nice to make some cross check so you can deffo pin point what's going on...

Regards, Bernie

Will give it a go tomorrow and report back (ECO MODE). But it seems likely as eco mode is disabled when you select semi auto mode.....

Also noticed an occasion crunch when going into reverse from neutral. going from gear 1 to reverse works fine. Any relation perhaps?

1. If it is loosing pressure, that might be the cause. get it checked and fixed (the selespeed in the Stilo was particulary troublesome when the pressure accumulators didn't do they job)
2. Do a clutch position reset. (use MES)
3. Use MES to see the working pressures. don't kow what the correct values are, but they are out there(should be similar to the selespeed one...they are available on the internet).

Hi there,

the dualogic (C514 gearbox) oil pressure should be maintained between 40 and 50 bars. There is a very nice description of the whole system in the eLearn CD, under 1.4 8V...

Regards, Bernie

The issue is still here although it does seem to of improved using non-ec mode.

MES reports pressures of being 40 - 50. Will do the clutch reset but it needs a clear stretch of road etc to do. Once complete I will report back.

Am also changing selespeed fluid next week as its black and sooty.

Hi Mike et All,

I am a bit concerned about this black and sooty hydraulic fluid ; how often does this need to be checked/flushed according to your (dualogic) specific maintance program ??

Emptying and refilling the little reservoir will NOT replace the entire fluid; here is how I suggest to do:

- source the correct fluid from Fiat, can't buy less than 1 liter, but you'll need it...
- drain the old fluid off the tank releasing the pump feed pipe. Don't forget to tight it back !
- the hydraulic block gets one-way valves at entry so won't drain if loosing the banjo connector ...
- I guess, believe, hope that the drain/bleed MES function will put the electovalves in such a configuration that the whole system fluid will go back to reservoir
- If true, the reservoir should be filled (about half) again, drain it...
- Once done, check everything's tight and losen the return pipe to the reservoir
- fill tank to the very top with fresh fluid, use a clear can to collect fluid from return pipe
- open driver door, the pump should start running, WATCH the fluid level, being ready to complete if needed : the reservoir is 0,5 l and the accumulator is 0,28 l
- once 50 bar pressure is reached in the hydraulic block, the pump should stop, max-up fluid level.
- perform a few gear changes (no need to have engine running according to eLearn...), some fluid should bleed off the return pipe, probably black and sooty...
- repeat gear changes until wasted fluid is clear (no clue here how much it can take ), watch the fluid level !!
- refitt the return pipe, max-up the fluid level and go for a road test !!

Does it make sense to You Guys ??

Regards, Bernie
-

Well guys, following my post above (#5) I've had the bad news from the Fiat main agent that the car will need a new gearbox I am told we are looking at over a Grand including fitting and VAT, so I'm really p***ed off as the car has only 31k on the clock and I've owned it just 3 weeks now.

I don't know what to do, do I try palming it off or do I splash out and get it fixed knowing that at least now it will be ok, whereas going back into the secondhand market I could - once more - be buying any old crap!

Problems problems......

Well, that's bad news ! As I'm not too confident with after sale services in general, I would ask a second opinion, preferably from a gearbox specialist; I really doubt the gearbox itself is at fault, the robot is still my favourite suspect...

Regards, Bernie

If it was a Panda Dualogic I would suspect a sticking pump motor or failed accumulator. The symptoms match but not sure how similar the GP Dualogic is to the Panda one.
When booting it in 5th the box tries to change down to 4th but there is not enough pressure available. So it goes to Neutral.

Definitely worth consulting a real Dualogic/Selespeed expert, as Fiat do tend to treat it as one unit and swap out the whole thing rather than individual parts.
It's understandable for warranty work but not helpful when paying yourself.
If it is the motor (panda one is same as Alfa 156 which can be purchased separately) it would be wise to change out the accumulator and selespeed fluid at the same time. Parts may be a couple of hundred pounds but well worth it unless the actuator has any leaks.
A proper expert will know within minutes.
Try independent Alfa places if you are struggling to find Dualogic specialists.

I've been looking online for such specialists but have come up blank. There is a small garage locally who have their own gearbox specialist who said he can look at it, so I may think about that.

I've just emailed the dealer I bought it from and await their response - which I think will be zero! But if necessary I'm thinking small claims court as it is effectively dangerous as it stands coz if I'm on the motorway and it drops into neutral I've got nothing! I will have to keep in the first lane and then coast to a halt before I can restart the car and proceed.

Reading the many many complaints that appear all over the web about this fault on Fiats and Alfa's I am surprised there hasn't been some kind of recall on them

Robpo said:

I've been looking online for such specialists but have come up blank. There is a small garage locally who have their own gearbox specialist who said he can look at it, so I may think about that.

Reading the many many complaints that appear all over the web about this fault on Fiats and Alfa's I am surprised there hasn't been some kind of recall on them

Click to expand...

the units do tend to have a hard life.. and so need proper servicing..

many people have YEARS of trouble free ownership.

think "Rover K type"..

where are you based..? I'd be surprised if there's nobody within 25 miles

Charlie - Oxford

Think about how many time you have to clutch / shift gears on a single day and you'll figure out how hard their live is...
There are procedures to verify the robot functionnality (eg weighting the accumulator), they have to be carried out by trained personnel, whom is possibly not available in your Fiat dealer. It is not uncommon that the garage replaces entire unit(s) just to be on the safe side, a matter of reputation; THEY fix the car, but YOU payed the bill...
Can't believe you won't find a true specialist around !

Regards, Bernie.

Bernievarian: I forgot to add (because of a comment you had previously made), when I mentioned that the problem has so far only manifested itself when in ECO mode, the technician said he wasn't surprised, such a fault would most likely start in eco mode

BTW, I have decided to get rid, the dealer has been positive about returning it

I had the same problem.so I took i to fiat and they've told me that I need a new actuator. 1500£.all done now works like magic. Absolutely can't fault on it! I had very low pressure! Love dual logic!

Glad to hear that it worked for you, still have some doubts wether a complete replacement was necessary or if a new pump would have been enough... (unless they replaced only the actuator ?)

Regards, Bernie