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Technical punto grande 1.3 multijet starting issues

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Technical punto grande 1.3 multijet starting issues

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harloweagle

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Hi have had an issue lately with my car turning over but not starting. Have had a new battery fitted and changed the glow plugs recently. When I get a jump it starts first time no issues. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Is the alternator charging properly? make sure the earth lead connections are clean and tight.
 
The battery is charging properly as it was flat and I got a jump start and took it on a long run. It holds a charge ok. Some times if I am lucky it will eventually start without getting a jump start. But as I said if its not firing it will as soon as I get a jumps start. Turns over well but just doesn't seem to fire up. Could it be the glow plug fuse or relay or both? Not sure which fuse is which though.
 
How comes it was flat, forgot something ON or self discharging ?
Is it running well @ cranking or a bit slow ?
Jump start came from another standalone battery or running car ?
Was it jumped on the battery or battery and body/engine ?
Battery connections are clean and tight ?
 
Bernievarian said:
How comes it was flat, forgot something ON or self discharging ?
Is it running well @ cranking or a bit slow ?
Jump start came from another standalone battery or running car ?
Was it jumped on the battery or battery and body/engine ?
Battery connections are clean and tight ?
Click to expand...

It was flats because it came back from repairs like that. Battery Is new only a month old. Its does have issues when it runs as it goes into limp mode. Engine management light on possible turbo I guess. I have jumped from a running car and also a battery booster and got it started. Battery connections look good.
 
You did not reply all questions, here are a few more :-(

What was the repairs about ?
What engine version is it, 75 or 90 bhp ?
You never mentioned it goes in limp mode, is it a new behavior ?
Have you OBD it for the MIL light ?

We need more details if you want one of use giving some advise !!

Regards, Bernie
 
Bernievarian said:
You did not reply all questions, here are a few more :-(

What was the repairs about ?
What engine version is it, 75 or 90 bhp ?
You never mentioned it goes in limp mode, is it a new behavior ?
Have you OBD it for the MIL light ?

We need more details if you want one of use giving some advise !!

Regards, Bernie
Click to expand...

Ok let me give the full rundown.
The car was running fine and starting fine.
Firstly it started taking time to start. Indicating a glow plug issue as I had the same problem before and had the glow plugs changed. This time I didn't change the glowplugs as it had not even been a year since I replaced them. One waybill driving the engine management warning light came on and it went in to limp mode but a few days later that cleared. Soon after that it came back again. Code reading was P0234 turbocharger/supercharger overboost condition. Took it to garage and had battery changed, Air filter changed and fuel filter changed. That night some one drove into side of car so it went for repairs. It came back with flats battery. I changed glow plugs and then got a jump from running car. Started and took it for a run. Tried to start it next day but it wouldn't start. Turned over fine. I used a battery booster and got it started. Seems it needs the extra boost to start it. The car is 75bhp. Has 120000 miles on the clock. Runs ok apart from when it hits 3000 revs it goes into limp mode.
 
Haaa, this is how we like issue description !

- 75 BHP: this tells us what kind of turbo is fitted, it's with a wastegate
- P0234: turbo overboost, most likely the wastegate or its actuator or the pipe that drives it has a problem
- starts with booster or jumped from other car: weak battery, look at the FAQ section

- I asked what engine for obvious reason of turbo type identification
- I asked why the repair for obvious reason : mechanics or body repair works ?
- If mechanic what was faulty
- If body work, where was the repair done ? There are some sensitive parts on the front cross-member (if it was a 90 bhp)
- Conditions of starting: just trying here to narrow-down the issue

We now know almost all of the issue; so I'd suggest to:

- install a stronger (higher Amps output capability) battery, you might have to remove the plastic/rubber thingy in the battery tray to fit the larger one. That should fix your starting issue (assuming your alternator is really ok to fully charge the battery)
- Have a mechanic or a skilly friend investigate and restore the wastegate functionnality. That should fix your limp mode issue (might need to OBD-clear the error in the ECU)

This done you should be enjoying to drive the GP again !!

Should You have any question don't be shy, ask us ...

Regards, Bernie

If someone helped You here fix or understand your issue, hit the thanks button, it's free !!
 
Last edited:
Bernievarian said:
Haaa, this is how we like issue description !

- 75 BHP: this tells us what kind of turbo is fitted, it's with a wastegate
- P0234: turbo overboost, most likely the wastegate or its actuator or the pipe that drives it has a problem
- starts with booster or jumped from other car: weak battery, look at the FAQ section

- I asked what engine for obvious reason of turbo type identification
- I asked why the repair for obvious reason : mechanics or body repair works ?
- If mechanic what was faulty
- If body work, where was the repair done ? There are some sensitive parts on the front cross-member (if it was a 90 bhp)
- Conditions of starting: just trying here to narrow-down the issue

We now know almost all of the issue; so I'd suggest to:

- install a stronger (higher Amps output capability) battery, you might have to remove the plastic/rubber thingy in the battery tray to fit the larger one. That should fix your starting issue (assuming your alternator is really ok to fully charge the battery)
- Have a mechanic or a skilly friend investigate and restore the wastegate functionnality. That should fix your limp mode issue (might need to OBD-clear the error in the ECU)

This done you should be enjoying to drive the GP again !!

Should You have any question don't be shy, ask us ...

Regards, Bernie

If someone helped You here fix or understand your issue, hit the thanks button, it's free !!
Click to expand...

Thanks Bernie, makes it interesting what the guy at the garage said about the wastegate being part of the turbo. I had read you can just change the wastegate. He was talking about dropping everything and it being expensive. Will start with new battery and talk to my friend about the waste gate. It definitely is 75bhp I double checked based on what you said and what the garage guy was saying. Thanks again
 
Last edited:
Hi Danny,

to be exact the wastegate is partly part of the turbo cast (on your car at least, this is not always true!), but there are external parts also. Want some more ? Here we are:

When the turbo start blowing (acceleration phase or load increase and pedal down...), the pressure at output increases, allowing more air to get to the cylinders. More air = more fuel that can be burnt in the engine = more power = more exhaust gases = more turbo speed = more pressure etc. The engine would finally literally explode (have a look @ You-Tube about pulling/dragster video).

To avoid this came the wastegate: as the air pressure increases it starts pushing a membrane against a calibrated spring (in the actuator) that will eventually open a release valve in the exhaust conduit (or in the turbo casting itself) that will divert part of the gases directly to exhaust system resulting in turbo speed / boost pressure regulation.

Now let's assume the membrane or the pipe is cracked, or the valve is seized close... The air (boost) pressure will reach the limit set by the ECU and it will enter limp mode by reducing the injected fuel quantity : you get power loss ! Simple hey ??

Regards, Bernie.

If someone helped You here fix or understand your issue, hit the thanks button, it's free !!
 
Last edited:
Bernievarian said:
Hi Danny,

to be exact the wastegate is partly part of the turbo cast (on your car at least, this is not always true!), but there are external parts also. Want some more ? Here we are:

When the turbo start blowing (acceleration phase or load increase and pedal down...), the pressure at output increases, allowing more air to get to the cylinders. More air = more fuel that can be burnt in the engine = more power = more exhaust gases = more turbo speed = more pressure etc. The engine would finally literally explode (have a look @ You-Tube about pulling/dragster video).

To avoid this came the wastegate: as the air pressure increases it starts pushing a membrane against a calibrated spring (in the actuator) that will eventually open a release valve in the exhaust conduit (or in the turbo casting itself) that will divert part of the gases directly to exhaust system resulting in turbo speed / boost pressure regulation.

Now let's assume the membrane or the pipe is cracked, or the valve is seized close... The air (boost) pressure will reach the limit set by the ECU and it will enter limp mode by reducing the injected fuel quantity : you get power loss ! Simple hey ??

Regards, Bernie.

If someone helped You here fix or understand your issue, hit the thanks button, it's free !!
Click to expand...
Gotta say I love reading when someone knows what they're talking about, love the descriptions in your answers. Thank you.

How often should Glow Plugs be changed, and what are the symptoms to look out for, which indicate it's time to change them?
And what tool should Ibuy to remove them, a link to one on euro car parts or halfords would be much appreciated, and needless to say, your help and time taken to reply is much appreciated.

Thanks
Dan
 
Hi Danny,

thanks for the compliment :)

Regarding the glow plugs, they should be ok for the engine life at least. No need for inspection/replacement like on petrol cars :).
Symptoms of failure would be difficult cold start in cold weather. Usually if you need to crank or do the pre-heating twice or more, you got one or more dead glow plug. Engine starting '
on three legs ' is similar symptom. To identify the bad one you can just ohm it; infinite resistance: open circuit : kaputt !
Don't have a multimeter ? Get a 12 V HALLOGEN bulb, a screw connector (called a 'sugar' in Belgium) with ca the same pitch as the bulb pins and two piece of wire (no need to be strong) connect both cables to the connector at the bulb, hook one cable to the plug and the other to POSITIVE of the battery. The bulb should lit if the plug is ok...

The plugs are simply bolt in the engine. On COLD engine, the day before, squirt some WD40 or your preferred un-seizer on the threads; on D day carefully losen and unscrew the plug using a long version socket WELL ALIGNED with the plug. Use your power sparingly, no high torque, no lever bar... The tightening torque is only 0.9 to 1.1 daNm (1 mKg).

Regards, Bernie
 

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OK So I have had it in the garage again. They have tested battery and its all ok and fuel is being delivered, plugs working fine. So I am stumped because it still won't start. Some one mentioned starter motor but it turns over fine. Although I have some times noticed I turn the key and nothing, turn it back wait a few secs and try it again and it starts to turn over again.
 
Bernievarian said:
Hi Danny,

thanks for the compliment :)

Regarding the glow plugs, they should be ok for the engine life at least. No need for inspection/replacement like on petrol cars :).
Symptoms of failure would be difficult cold start in cold weather. Usually if you need to crank or do the pre-heating twice or more, you got one or more dead glow plug. Engine starting '
on three legs ' is similar symptom. To identify the bad one you can just ohm it; infinite resistance: open circuit : kaputt !
Don't have a multimeter ? Get a 12 V HALLOGEN bulb, a screw connector (called a 'sugar' in Belgium) with ca the same pitch as the bulb pins and two piece of wire (no need to be strong) connect both cables to the connector at the bulb, hook one cable to the plug and the other to POSITIVE of the battery. The bulb should lit if the plug is ok...

The plugs are simply bolt in the engine. On COLD engine, the day before, squirt some WD40 or your preferred un-seizer on the threads; on D day carefully losen and unscrew the plug using a long version socket WELL ALIGNED with the plug. Use your power sparingly, no high torque, no lever bar... The tightening torque is only 0.9 to 1.1 daNm (1 mKg).

Regards, Bernie
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for the help and advice Bernie.
 
Hi there,

fuel pressure (pre-pump and high pressure pump) verified ?
The injection timing is mainly looking at two sensors to occure: flywheel to detect TDC (top dead center) and camshaft to detect which cylinder needs injection. Those are connected to the ECU so would one of the sensors becoming "weak" and the ECU might go in no-start a low voltage condition should appears.
I don't see any other reason why the engine would not start by itself but would with another battery hooked to :-(

Regards, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix or understand your issue, hit the thanks button, it's free !
 
Hi Bernie

No issues with fuel getting through all verified. I have ordered a starter motor of a scrap dealer. Just in case its not turning fast enough I figured for £20 it was worth a go. Starter motor as I say is a long shot I think but got to try something. It has most people stumped I even asked a friend who is a mechanic but nothing works so far. I appreciate all your help Bernie hopefully I will get to the bottom off it and let you know.

Roger
 
harloweagle said:
Hi Bernie

No issues with fuel getting through all verified. I have ordered a starter motor of a scrap dealer. Just in case its not turning fast enough I figured for £20 it was worth a go. Starter motor as I say is a long shot I think but got to try something. It has most people stumped I even asked a friend who is a mechanic but nothing works so far. I appreciate all your help Bernie hopefully I will get to the bottom off it and let you know.

Roger
Click to expand...
Hi,

I had a similar issue were it would not start very well when car had cooled after approx 3 hours. Starts fine when hot and cold. Starter motor seems to work fine which is what can stop this being suspected. A possible clue is that when you jumped started the car it started first time. You have added extra amps to the system helping it start when connected. When starting without a jump does the lights etc dim heavily? I am thinking the motor is faulty and drawing too many amps causing the ecu or sensor to malfunction briefly as the voltage has dropped too low. Mine did exactly the same so I changed the start and now all issues have gone away.

See

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/442010-2007-gp-1-9-multijet-130-starting-problems-2.html

Get your garage to test the amp draw when being cranked to see if it overly high, should be simple for them, I believe it should be < 300 amps (not confirmed). If you do decide to buy a starter motor don't buy a cheap Chinese one off Ebay you will be replacing it again soon.

Hope this helps.
 
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