The BBC WATCHDOG THREAD

[ChrisUK]

The complaints should really be directed at those companies-

Why? Legally it's Fiat's responsibility in what parts it used to build their vehicles. In this instance they haven't used due dilligance in noticing a trend (even if the Technians working on them do). BMW's Mini suffers similar problems BMW took hold of the problem and sorted it out weither car was under warranty or not. Stark opposite of what Fiat manage to do.

Many other manufacturers use EPAS too, and have similar issues, why weren't they singled out for a slating?

Very true but most of the others are much more reliable, Hyundai for instance have been using EPAS for about 5 years. No horror stories of them failing yet.... And although it does happen I think the way Fiat are dealing with it is what is leading to the hostility against them. I think the fact they didn't even make an appearance on the show sums up their attitude.

 

[dave]

Hyundai for instance have been using EPAS for about 5 years. No horror stories of them failing yet....

don't they have a 5 or 7 year warranty? so no one will be moaning on forums about them yet

 

[T14086]

It would of been pointless for anyone to represent Fiat on the programme. As I mentioned earlier the representative wouldn't get a chance to answer and like all the people that go on the programme would be made to look stupid. I actually liked 'watchdog' but the days of it being a creditable programme are long gone as it tries to inject humour and pretend to be the consumers beacon light. A strongman driving in & out of cones clearly shows the programmes lack of technical research into the actual faults that can occur, did anyone think of asking the technicians that know and work on the systems? Dedicated internet forums can provide you with better advice and background information these days.

Should the EPS systems be failing, no of course not but then again all makes of cars have similar issues some just hide them better than others, also BMW were not that generous in replacing EPS systems.

I would assume Fiat just claim money back from the EPS manufacturer so would not lose out financially anyway but the way 'they' have handled the whole situation since the days of the Mk2 punto has been poor to say the least although my 9 year old punto has it's original EPS system still on it after 90k, might become a collectors item soon

 

[dave]

ive just learned that the linea is hydraulic, is it fully hydraulic or electric pumped?

 

[krossi]

Does anyone know if the power steering system is the same in the Fiat 500 as the Panda. I ask because I know they share components. My red light came on with a power steering failure and the steering became very heavy. I got to work parked up, and when I went home it was fine. I called Fiat Customer care on Friday and they eventually gave me a reference number and will have it looked at by Fiat on Monday. Though they were insistent that the Watchdog programe did not refer to my model, and there were no reported problems with it.

 

[KozmoNaut]

Does anyone know if the power steering system is the same in the Fiat 500 as the Panda. I ask because I know they share components.

That's quite an understatement. Apart from the styling and rear suspension, they're basically the same car.

So yes, if it's an issue for Pandas, it'll be an issue for 500s as well.

 

[Stu DemonD]

I thought it only affected cars up to 2008 or so. When was the 500 launched? 2007 wasn't it.

 

[krossi]

Mine was registered in May 2008 so four years old next week. 50k on the clock and it has been beseiged with problems. Whilst under warranty it needed a new control unit. Now problems with the power steering, drivers door handle has come loose, and the tailgate won't open. I just brought a new carriage charge lock (£40) as I thought it was the solenoid and fitted it but still not working. It seems that the old fiat electrical problems still persist depsite the trendy marketting and image they want to potray.

 

[Cinqster355]

My 56 plate 1.4 Active Sport has just failed this week, I cannot believe the timing. I can see recon units on Ebay are available, I have rang them today and am getting a refurb/exchange unit next week for £234.50. Is this a job a reasonably competent DIY person can do or do I need to get a mechanic to fit and do I need special tools?

Does anyone know?

 

[T14086]

Does anyone know if the power steering system is the same in the Fiat 500 as the Panda. I ask because I know they share components. My red light came on with a power steering failure and the steering became very heavy. I got to work parked up, and when I went home it was fine. I called Fiat Customer care on Friday and they eventually gave me a reference number and will have it looked at by Fiat on Monday. Though they were insistent that the Watchdog programe did not refer to my model, and there were no reported problems with it.

So yes, if it's an issue for Pandas, it'll be an issue for 500s as well.

NO they are not, Krossi customer care are correct in what they are telling you. You are advised to get a software update from your nearest Fiat dealership that will cure your issue.

 

[phil0254]

My grande is coming up to 6 years old ,not 1 issue with the steering ,so they aren't all faulty ,car is on 59,000 miles so is used a lot ...
Another point is..What is the ratio of cars built to failure rate ???
Why should any manufacturer replace an item on a car that is (a) out of warranty (b) may have no service history (c) don't know how it has been driven ,i dare say pot holes and kerbing a car will put a shock through the steering column ,could this be contributing to failure ???
Does anyone really take Watchdog seriouly anymore ..They put faults on items and then don't give a proper description of what went wrong ,then when the lad goes of on a tangent ,they crucify him ...I remember when they did the RAC over batteries ,they parked a car in a car park ,put a flat battery in it ,then told RAC parked up went shopping came back and battery dead .Now if you leave your car for 30 mins come back and batt is dead i would imagine if belt etc is ok then batt may be duff ,and not just need a jump ,RAC was trying to do a 1st time fix

 

[Crx16]

My grande is coming up to 6 years old ,not 1 issue with the steering ,so they aren't all faulty ,car is on 59,000 miles so is used a lot ...
Another point is..What is the ratio of cars built to failure rate ???
Why should any manufacturer replace an item on a car that is (a) out of warranty (b) may have no service history (c) don't know how it has been driven ,i dare say pot holes and kerbing a car will put a shock through the steering column ,could this be contributing to failure ???
Does anyone really take Watchdog seriouly anymore ..They put faults on items and then don't give a proper description of what went wrong ,then when the lad goes of on a tangent ,they crucify him ...I remember when they did the RAC over batteries ,they parked a car in a car park ,put a flat battery in it ,then told RAC parked up went shopping came back and battery dead .Now if you leave your car for 30 mins come back and batt is dead i would imagine if belt etc is ok then batt may be duff ,and not just need a jump ,RAC was trying to do a 1st time fix

(a) It should be fit for purpose, and last a reasonable amount of time. It isn't and it doesn't.
(b) do they service the eps? no. Full service history makes no difference.
(c) Pot holes are an unavoidable part of driving.

Yes watchdog is a load of bull. What are they doing reporting that the 99p store is ripping people off. It only costs 99p! Who cares!

 

[Bushboy]

The complaints should really be directed at those companies- if it were a simple fix, do you not think Fiat would have sorted it by now, thus saving a huge amount in warranty claims by Dealers which it has to pay for?

The simple fact is that Fiat have used cheap parts which aren't manufactured to a standard that will last the life of the car. They then replace the part with the same part and so it fails time and time again.

This problem has been ongoing since the MK2 Punto. Over 10 years. Fiat continue to use cheap, poorly manufactured parts and so the problem is ongoing.

Regardless why Fiat havent sorted the problem, the fact is, they haven't.

As far as it being hard to steer when it cuts out, I've driven Babz's Punto on many occasions when it's happened. It can sometimes be a surprise but I've come to expect it now and so just get on with it. it isn't hard to steer. Just heavier but not to the point you can't do it. Yes, manouvers are tricky but not impossible. Anyone ever thought to click the ignition back a notch and back on whilst the car is still moving? Takes less than a second, resets the steering ECU and can be done perfectly safely without stopping. Doesn't even kill the engine if you keep it in gear.

 

[phil0254]

Of course it's fit for purpose .What is the ratio of failures to cars made. a point that seems to be ignored

Of course service history matters ,no history means car may never have been serviced and someone with no knowledge has been messing about with systems they know nothing about ,who in their right mind will warrant anything that they have no record of being maintained ..You buy the car you know the warranty period ,any help outside of that is of goodwill and generally involves a service history

Potholes are an unavoidable part of driving ?? Why they shouldn't be ,look at the damage they cause to cars ,buckled wheel etc ,and probably cause accidents due to people trying to avoid them etc ,but that's acceptable ?????Well guess what ,parts failing on cars is an unavoidable part of driving ..I thought roads had to be up to standard ,after all the money we pay for them ,i've had countless broken front springs ,but i don't go to fiat complaining as it is 99% down to the state of the roads ..

 

[Bushboy]

Wear and tear on parts is all part of owning a car and yes, you should expect to replace certain parts.

The fact is, these steering columns fail within warranty. Surely that shows the part isn't fit to last the length of the car. Service history doesn't come into it. These parts are not serviceable. Nor would then be touched in a service anyway.

No, not all cars suffer this problem but that is besides the point. A large number do and Fiat have just basically said it is up to the owners to fix and have continually denied there is a problem. Owners pay for the replacement part and it fails again as it is still a poorly built piece of hardware.

 

[krossi]

Stoneacre Peterbourgh said as the Red light is not on now, I would have to pay £40 for a diagnostic test as fiat won't pay for this out of warranty. Can't afford too, so left it. Also was told by them that needed to pay another £40 on top of the £212 manufacturer service as that did not cover oil and filter change. Shame they didn't tell me that when I booked it! Anyway it failed its mot on its fourth anniversary as the front door handle came off when they came to collect it, and there is a fault with the boot wiring - another £29 to hook up to the diagnostic test, and £97 for the door handle. Couple of advisorys tyres, break pad but a surprise £315 quote for the airconditioning, as a vital part is rusting! Seriously thinking of getting shot of it - I had gone off fiats after a disastrous Bravo plauged with electrical problems, enticed back with the looks of the 500 but put off FIAT for life now!

 

[JTD_Liam]

Stoneacre Peterbourgh said as the Red light is not on now, I would have to pay £40 for a diagnostic test as fiat won't pay for this out of warranty. Can't afford too, so left it. Also was told by them that needed to pay another £40 on top of the £212 manufacturer service as that did not cover oil and filter change. Shame they didn't tell me that when I booked it! Anyway it failed its mot on its fourth anniversary as the front door handle came off when they came to collect it, and there is a fault with the boot wiring - another £29 to hook up to the diagnostic test, and £97 for the door handle. Couple of advisorys tyres, break pad but a surprise £315 quote for the airconditioning, as a vital part is rusting! Seriously thinking of getting shot of it - I had gone off fiats after a disastrous Bravo plauged with electrical problems, enticed back with the looks of the 500 but put off FIAT for life now!

Stoneacre have more negative comments than most. I'd avoid them for a start. A diagnostics fee is common practice for determining faults on Fiats as the warranty (particularly in year 3) is rubbish, but i wouldn't expect to pay a seperate fee for each fault, surely one diagnostic test should show all the faults. Some dealerships won't charge for any tests, but it does vary from dealer to dealer.

I don't understand how the dealer quoted for a service that didn't include oil & filter. If it didn't include oil & filter then it's not a service. I would've gone & collected the car & refused to pay the additional £40. I'd also raise this with Fiat UK on the basis that they mis-sold the service as i find that staggering. Verging on hard to believe.

Boot wiring & door handle problems are documented on the 500 section. Run a search for both & it should bring up results. The boot wiring fault is being discussed currently. The aircon fault i've not heard of, but i can see on my Parents 500 that what looks like the A/C condensor is placed in a very vulnerable position just behind the front grill, so it's probably got covered in road salt & rain water. Again i would speak to Fiat UK as this seems like unreasonable wear for a 4 year old car. I'll be gently spraying the hose into that area behind the grill when we wash our 500, to make sure any cr*p is removed regularly to hopefully prevent corrosion. When the hosepipe ban ends ofcourse. Mustn't forget we're in drought

 

[krossi]

Thanks JTD Liam - If I wasn't at work 40 miles away then I would have been tempted to have gone and collected it from Stoneacre Peterborough. I booked the £212 Fiat Service instead of their premium £199 service because I thought it would be a better one! To get a call to tell me that it didn't include an oil and air filter change amazed me. It's shockingly poor customer service and dishonest, and there is no way I will go near Stoneacre again. I thought that I had better take it there as I got a letter from them saying that their were updates to install.
I called Fiat Customer Care toady and they insisted I would have to pay for the diagnostic test for the power steering issue in addition to the one I had agreed to pay for the boot issue to get it through the MOT. It was useless remonstrating with them, but at least they agreed to escalate the air conditioning problem to a senior executive - not that I am holding my breath for a good outcome.

 

[T14086]

Service history doesn't come into it. These parts are not serviceable. Nor would then be touched in a service anyway

Scan test, service sheet states engine management errors recorded (or something like that) so a scan test which scans all vehicle modules is normally carried out compared to just a engine ECU error test. It will detect a steering error in this procedure.

Stoneacre Peterbourgh said as the Red light is not on now, I would have to pay £40 for a diagnostic test as fiat won't pay for this out of warranty. Can't afford too, so left it.

Sorry mate but garages are a business however I don't see how 'hooking up diagnostic equipment to test' boot wiring will do anything? Looking at it will be more effective!

The aircon fault i've not heard of, but i can see on my Parents 500 that what looks like the A/C condensor is placed in a very vulnerable position just behind the front grill, so it's probably got covered in road salt & rain water.

Not quite sure what you mean here Liam (or i'm reading it wrong) but condensors are mounted at front of vehicle in the airflow along with the radiator and if fitted intercooler.

 

[krossi]

Agreed - Garages are businesses, but that doesn't excuse misleading clients by failing to tell them it doesn't include an oil and filter change, then trying to flog them one on top when they have your car. That's just downright dishonest, and Stoneacre ought to be ashamed.