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Old 25-05-2006   #1
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powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

Just got off the phone with a mate of mine, i'm sure you all remember the driver of the smart that fell onto its side (ow!). Anyhoo, he is as mad about modding that thing as we are with centos - and it has just had a lot of engine work done (wild cam, ported head to go with the hybrid turbo and exhaust bypass system it has) because it's so far from standard, it needed a customised map - not just a generic off the shelf kind of map that it was running before.

He got in touch with Powertune in Widnes, Chesire who said they could custom map it for him. So he took it down there, expecting a similar setup to where gaz's Seicento was mapped. Instead, they just downloaded generic maps from red dot, and then just kept trying different maps from there. They seemed to have no idea how to actual customise the maps that they were just getting from red dot.
I'm not saying me or viv are an expert on mapping cars, but the guys there seemed to know even less - failing to spot the car had tripped into limp home mode was just one of the things they did.

They kept telling him it couldn't run above 1.6bar of boost. Rubbish. That engine had run more than that in the past, and his previous one was run at 2bar.

Once it was 'finished' he drove it home. He noticed it wasn't holding boost like it should, it was just trailing off. 6th gear became unesable and by the time the car get home it was very under powered.

He rang powertune this morning to speak about sorting this mess out, they said it was 'custom' mapped because they tried at least 5 different maps on it (not my defintion of custom that!), then they told him to get f**k*d and hung up.

http://www.powertunemotorsport.co.uk/index.htm <-- avoid these cowboys.
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Old 25-05-2006   #2
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

very nice work there i would be in touch with citizens advice and sending a recorded delivery letter stating you want the car returned to its original map or to a satisfactory map as the work done was below standard before commencing legal action.
get trading standards involved as well
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Old 25-05-2006   #3
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

Thanks for the post arc, you covered all the ground there spot on! So yerh these guys dont know anything it would seem. They were fixated on the wastegate saying I shouldnt of adjusted it. So they then spent time ringing up specialist to find the correct default length it should off been.

Once set back to default, they tried several maps, oh what a suprise it ran at 1bar. Eventually they adjusted the wastegate to get it running at about 1.5bar (oh wait, hadn't they only just told me that i shouldn't touch the wastegate as all boost levels are adjusted via the maps).

On the way home the last 20miles I had ended up with zero boost, I've been thinking the worst all night and today. Well got home and set the wastegate back to where I (yes me the kid that doesn't know anything apparently in their eyes) and hey presto the boost is back!

As for throttle response its all crap, nothing custom about it, 290 worse off, had to take a days leave to actually get this rubbish installed on the car. Then to be told over the phone to get to F**k, was like , wow where'd that come from.

Letters will be written up, try and keep you all posted over the following weeks.

Cheers
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Old 25-05-2006   #4
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Cool Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

Cowboys like these people should be prosecuted under trades description they obviously didnt have a clue what they were doing I hope you get it sorted and hopefully a refund of your monies
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Old 25-05-2006   #5
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

Quote Originally Posted by custard boy
very nice work there i would be in touch with citizens advice and sending a recorded delivery letter stating you want the car returned to its original map or to a satisfactory map as the work done was below standard before commencing legal action.
get trading standards involved as well
but they can tune Cit' Visa's... if anybody can find one
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Old 26-05-2006   #6
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

LMFAO! sounds like a typical widnes garage!

didnt know there was a mapping place in widnes though! wont be using that!

BTW im not a widnesian, im from the midlands, just live here
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Old 01-06-2006   #7
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

if you pay for obd tuning and it makes your car worse, technically the garage has done nothing wrong, they have altered the parameters stored in the ecu which is "obd tuning". if they make no mention of the effect it will have or exactly how they create the parameters then they havent done anything wrong as far as trading and standards are concerned. you need to get something that mentions a "custom" remap, and something that says "improved" performance, with both of those in your hand they stand little chance. without them they've done nothing wrong. the reciept and an advert for their services should cover both these points, but the wording will dictate if they have done anything wrong.

i cant believe they can actually charge &#163;280 to have a computer plugged into the ecu and a few values altered, surely you could make your own remap gear for that much? or even buy the gear they had for a little bit more?

they use red dot's millenium flasher and red dot's preset maps
you can buy a set of 15000 remaps and 15000 standard maps on ebay for &#163;15 http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...Category=32094
and then buy a better flasher direct from hong kong using this link
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11422...2_Flasher.html

then you'll be able to remap almost any car for less than the price of one remap, the nature of a flasher is that you can only load a preset map, but you can alter maps on your PC prior to flashing the ecu so it is a perfectly customisable way to do mapping, and whoever buys it gets to make money doing other people's cars. hooray for DIY
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Old 15-07-2006   #8
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

Having just stumbled across this forum and read this utter ******** would you like to know the truth about this idiot!! from us as opposed to "Through one of his mates on the phone" In the first instance over the phone he was told we carry out generic obd tuning, NOT customised programs. When he turned up with the car it was running an original program and he said he had to stop a couple of times on the way down to disconnect the battery to re-set the computer as it was overboosting with 1 bar pressure?? I then told him by fitting this map it will not overcome your boost problem AS YOU HAVE GOT A PROBLEM WITH SOMETHING ELSE ON YOUR VEHICLE. to which he replied, Well try it anyway and see what happens knowing full well that I was downloading a generic map prepared by red dot. Why not at this point did he not mention that he wanted a custom map and not a generic map?? and indeed let us sort out a further 4 maps which took 3 hours (Which incidentally worked fine on other Smart cars giving 80hp)? I then spoke to the person who carried out the mods to his engine having asked him exactly what spec the engine was. He was unsure what spec the camshaft was but it was NOT the wild cam that was mentioned. We also carried out a rolling road power run and informed him of the power output and was happy at the time?? We told Red Dot that the car had been running over 2bar boost in the past and they just laughed at us saying that there was no way an engine and a std sized turbo could manage anything like that and even if it would the engine would drop a valve long before that so the most they would do is 1.5 bar as they are not in the business of blowing peoples engines up. This statement was backed up by Smart tuning specialists in Watford who confirmed everyting Red Dot said. Incidentally we charged "YOUR FRIEND" 250 for the generic remap, the other 40 was to refit his turbo wastegate actuator as it was falling off!! along with certain other parts of the car. We started work on this car at 10am in the morning and finnished it at just after 2pm (4 Hours) we downloaded 5 maps that had to be prepared which cost money (check out the many other tuning companies that download generic maps and see how much they charge by comparison) re fitted his actuator and carried out a rolling road power run. Im sorry if he feels we have ripped him off but in our opinion he got exactly what he asked for and more!! he just needs to get the basics of his car sorted before he thinks of getting a remap. Im all favour of forums like this, free speech and everything but before people start veiwing there opinion the MUST first get all the facts as there seem to be a lot of information missing from your phone call from your "FRIEND". And while we are on the subject of your friend why has he got you to do his dirty work about his Smart car on a Fiat forum?? that alone speaks volumes dont you think!
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Old 15-07-2006   #9
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

Quote Originally Posted by powertune
would you like to know the truth about this idiot!! from us as opposed to "Through one of his mates on the phone"
it wasn't all over the phone, i know this guy and have done for years and dare say i know the car a damn sight better than any of you lot.

Quote Originally Posted by powertune
In the first instance over the phone he was told we carry out generic obd tuning, NOT customised programs.
not what i heard.

Quote Originally Posted by powertune
When he turned up with the car it was running an original program and he said he had to stop a couple of times on the way down to disconnect the battery to re-set the computer as it was overboosting with 1 bar pressure?? I then told him by fitting this map it will not overcome your boost problem AS YOU HAVE GOT A PROBLEM WITH SOMETHING ELSE ON YOUR VEHICLE.
wrong. the standard map cuts the boost after around a 10second overboost at around 1bar. That car, and his previous car had been running maps which allowed it to boost beyond that with no changes to the car other than a map.

Quote Originally Posted by powertune
see what happens knowing full well that I was downloading a generic map prepared by red dot. Why not at this point did he not mention that he wanted a custom map and not a generic map?? and indeed let us sort out a further 4 maps which took 3 hours (Which incidentally worked fine on other Smart cars giving 80hp)?
again, not what i heard. As far as i know he'd specifically asked for a custom map and you said that you could do that.

Quote Originally Posted by powertune
I then spoke to the person who carried out the mods to his engine having asked him exactly what spec the engine was. He was unsure what spec the camshaft was but it was NOT the wild cam that was mentioned.
that'd be Ian at BIG? Odd that he didn't know the cam specs seeing as though he sold it to him and it was sold as a race cam..


Quote Originally Posted by powertune
We also carried out a rolling road power run and informed him of the power output and was happy at the time??
i think he was getting pissed off and wanted to go.

Quote Originally Posted by powertune
We told Red Dot that the car had been running over 2bar boost in the past and they just laughed at us saying that there was no way an engine and a std sized turbo could manage anything like that and even if it would the engine would drop a valve long before that so the most they would do is 1.5 bar as they are not in the business of blowing peoples engines up.
His previous car managed it fine, and in fact this one did before it was returned to standard mapping.

Quote Originally Posted by powertune
Im sorry if he feels we have ripped him off but in our opinion he got exactly what he asked for and more!! he just needs to get the basics of his car sorted before he thinks of getting a remap. Im all favour of forums like this, free speech and everything but before people start veiwing there opinion the MUST first get all the facts as there seem to be a lot of information missing from your phone call from your "FRIEND".
remap companies i've spoken to before will return the car to standard and refund the money if you are not 100% happy with the car. you're policy seems to be "ner ner ner can't hear you", swearing at people and slamming the phone down?

Quote Originally Posted by powertune
And while we are on the subject of your friend why has he got you to do his dirty work about his Smart car on a Fiat forum?? that alone speaks volumes dont you think!
i'm not 'doing his dirty work', i'm warning people to stay away from you lot.


If you were to actually speak with Viv about this, and not just slam the phone down on him then this might've been resolved, but you don't seem to care about any kind of support - you've got your money, so you're happy?
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Last edited by arc; 15-07-2006 at 14:49.
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Old 16-07-2006   #10
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

Quote Originally Posted by Powertune
Having just stumbled across this forum and read this utter ******** would you like to know the truth about this idiot!! from us as opposed to "Through one of his mates on the phone" In the first instance over the phone he was told we carry out generic obd tuning, NOT customised programs. When he turned up with the car it was running an original program and he said he had to stop a couple of times on the way down to disconnect the battery to re-set the computer as it was overboosting with 1 bar pressure?? I then told him by fitting this map it will not overcome your boost problem AS YOU HAVE GOT A PROBLEM WITH SOMETHING ELSE ON YOUR VEHICLE. to which he replied, Well try it anyway and see what happens knowing full well that I was downloading a generic map prepared by red dot. Why not at this point did he not mention that he wanted a custom map and not a generic map?? and indeed let us sort out a further 4 maps which took 3 hours (Which incidentally worked fine on other Smart cars giving 80hp)? I then spoke to the person who carried out the mods to his engine having asked him exactly what spec the engine was. He was unsure what spec the camshaft was but it was NOT the wild cam that was mentioned. We also carried out a rolling road power run and informed him of the power output and was happy at the time?? We told Red Dot that the car had been running over 2bar boost in the past and they just laughed at us saying that there was no way an engine and a std sized turbo could manage anything like that and even if it would the engine would drop a valve long before that so the most they would do is 1.5 bar as they are not in the business of blowing peoples engines up. This statement was backed up by Smart tuning specialists in Watford who confirmed everyting Red Dot said. Incidentally we charged "YOUR FRIEND" 250 for the generic remap, the other 40 was to refit his turbo wastegate actuator as it was falling off!! along with certain other parts of the car. We started work on this car at 10am in the morning and finnished it at just after 2pm (4 Hours) we downloaded 5 maps that had to be prepared which cost money (check out the many other tuning companies that download generic maps and see how much they charge by comparison) re fitted his actuator and carried out a rolling road power run. Im sorry if he feels we have ripped him off but in our opinion he got exactly what he asked for and more!! he just needs to get the basics of his car sorted before he thinks of getting a remap. Im all favour of forums like this, free speech and everything but before people start veiwing there opinion the MUST first get all the facts as there seem to be a lot of information missing from your phone call from your "FRIEND". And while we are on the subject of your friend why has he got you to do his dirty work about his Smart car on a Fiat forum?? that alone speaks volumes dont you think!
Nice aggressive post that. Should have the customers flocking in. Was it you who told him to **** off? (noticed you didn't mention that)
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Old 16-07-2006   #11
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

yep garrak, that'll be right.
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Old 19-07-2006   #12
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

Quote Originally Posted by Gazzak
Nice aggressive post that. Should have the customers flocking in. Was it you who told him to **** off? (noticed you didn't mention that)
Agreed! Muppets! Nothing like a company keeping a professional view on things.

Does this company not keep a customers order details confidential? Instead they come on a forum and slag off one customer. Based on the manor Powertune have reacted in the post above I would avoid them and encourage others as well, before I even start to look at what happened with Phoenix. Not exactly adopting a professional view on things. Shocking!

Phoenix3dfx225, hope you get your car sorted.

David
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

You guys ever played Chinese whispers as kids? You have read the case off a 3rd party, not the actual customer! The customer may have been selective with the truth! Power tune do a lot for the company I work for, and I have never experienced a problem with the work.
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Old 15-12-2016   #14
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

Quote Originally Posted by MikeAvalir View Post
You guys ever played Chinese whispers as kids? You have read the case off a 3rd party, not the actual customer! The customer may have been selective with the truth! Power tune do a lot for the company I work for, and I have never experienced a problem with the work.
Wow, your first post and you manage to dig up a thread that was at least 35 pages into the GARAGES section and 6 years old. Extremely lucky find that.... ?
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Old 18-12-2016   #15
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Re: powertune in widnes (remaps) - AVOID

Quote Originally Posted by MikeAvalir View Post
You guys ever played Chinese whispers as kids? You have read the case off a 3rd party, not the actual customer! The customer may have been selective with the truth! Power tune do a lot for the company I work for, and I have never experienced a problem with the work.
so - they're still trading.10 years later.

or at least the name is..
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