Technical 270 doors and fitting factory style glass windows?

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Technical 270 doors and fitting factory style glass windows?

Mevi

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Hi everyone,

I've been a lurker on the forum for a while, but as I just bought a L3H2 Ducato Maxi at the weekend, I'd better start contributing. I've already spent two solid days working on getting it prepped for starting it's conversion to a motorhome.

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My first post is a request for advice about my 270 doors. Before buying this model, I had hoped to fit rear windows - the flat factory fit style, not the Seitz style. The problem I see is that the 270 door hinges move over the area that would be glazed. Is this going to prevent me using this style of window?

OR...

I don't actually have any need of 270 doors. Can I simply swap those hinges for regular hinges, or is the Maxi rear door specific to that model?

Thanks
 
There's a part number for glass for those doors but its expensive. Might be cheaper / easier to swap for a pair of glazed doors in the scrap yard.
 
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Thanks for the reply. :)

I found a seller of aftermarket kit (vanpimps - I'm a newbie so I can't post a link to them) that sells flat glass rear windows for less than £70 each. Privacy tint, so I shouldn't expect to wake up to a glorious sunrise. I know they're not double glazed, but that is cheaper and stealthier than a Seitz.

I'd thought about doors from a scrappy, but even the windowless 270 doors are rare. Since I bought the van, I've not seen a single 270 door on the road and I drive over 100 miles a day in my work transit.

Any chance of the hinge swap?
 
Sorry, can't help with the hinge swap because mine came with 270 degree hinges too Just to say if I was starting from scratch again I would cover walls and roof with thermoliner for a vapour barrier. Then possibly stick in thicker insulation with spray foam where there is room.
http://www.harrisonstrimsupplies.co...-soundproofing-thermoliner-simple-23174-p.asp
There is cheaper sticky back foam on ebay without the foil covering you could use to fill in the corrugations, or in areas where you are going to stick other insulation over it.
I used to get condensation falling like rain but one layer of thermoliner stopped it completely. :)
 
Wow, thanks for the heads up on the thermoliner. I planned to use alu-butyl on the large panels of the roof and walls to minimise the sound of rain on the OUTSIDE as I'm a light sleeper. :D What is it like for that?

Your suggested product is half the price of the alu-butyl, so it's definitely on my shortlist now. I could cover the whole inside, cab and cargo and it be affordable.

Condensation has always been a concern, as I'm a gardener and sweaty horticultural waste has rotted my work transits from the inside out. I've read of putting a vapour barrier over the insulation, under the inside ply liner.

Cheers
 
Wow, thanks for the heads up on the thermoliner. I planned to use alu-butyl on the large panels of the roof and walls to minimise the sound of rain on the OUTSIDE as I'm a light sleeper. :D What is it like for that?

Your suggested product is half the price of the alu-butyl, so it's definitely on my shortlist now. I could cover the whole inside, cab and cargo and it be affordable.

Condensation has always been a concern, as I'm a gardener and sweaty horticultural waste has rotted my work transits from the inside out. I've read of putting a vapour barrier over the insulation, under the inside ply liner.

Cheers

Thermoliner is the easiest way I know to get a vapour barrier - its impervious to water as its closed cell foam. If you hold it underwater and squeeze it feels like a spring, not like a sponge because it doesn't absorb anything.
Doesn't make much difference to sound insulation though because its so light and flexible. For sound insulation you need weight, like the 9" brick wall around a house. Where you can't have much weight - like in flats or vans, there isn't much you can do to keep the noise out. The egg carton shaped foam you see in sound studios stops reflected noise (the sort you get reverberating around the hard walls of a railway station when they make a loudspeaker announcement.) But foam does very little to stop the noise going through the wall because it weighs very little.
If only foam stopped noise going through walls it would make life a lot better for people with noisy neighbours in flats. :(
 
I used to be a recording sound engineer some years back. I agree mass is the only good sound insulation. More mass = better sound insulation. MLV and Rockwool might be overkill, but I'm looking at those options too. I spray Rockwool with watered down PVA to control dust.

I'm more about reducing the tin can pitter patter of rain on the bodywork. The butyl is a proven method of turning a TINK! into a DONK!. I wondered if the thermoliner had enough mass (1kg per M2) to make much difference there?
 
Re doors from scrappie I was thinking of regular hinged doors its unlikely that they retooled the body for the 270 doors so I was assuming the normal door hinges will bolt on.

Re: insulation I've got a variety of insulations in my van. The floor, roof and main side panels have 25mm foil backed polyiso glued to the panels with closed cell polyiso expanding foam and all seams taped. Thermally its excellent and acoustically its much better than the self adhesive foam. But the addition of rockwool batts between the polyiso and the lining really reduces resonances. Cold bridge areas like pillars are done with camping mat which in autumn sales can be a very cheap source of high perfomance closed cell thin foam insulation.
 
Thanks Corcai, now it makes sense about swapping the doors. If I can be confident, I'd drop that cash tomorrow. I haggled £295+VAT off the price of the van just because of the nearside door being dented amongst other minor issues I spotted. I'll shop around. :)
 
I used to be a recording sound engineer some years back. I agree mass is the only good sound insulation. More mass = better sound insulation. MLV and Rockwool might be overkill, but I'm looking at those options too. I spray Rockwool with watered down PVA to control dust.

I'm more about reducing the tin can pitter patter of rain on the bodywork. The butyl is a proven method of turning a TINK! into a DONK!. I wondered if the thermoliner had enough mass (1kg per M2) to make much difference there?

I haven't noticed any difference in sound from fitting thermoliner as its very light.
I find I can get used to the steady sound of rain on the roof, but try to avoid parking under trees or telephone wires if its going to rain when I am trying to sleep. Otherwise the rain collects on the tree/wires until dislodged by a gust of wind - then in slaps down on to the roof at irregular intervals like banging a drum.
 
Panel van insulation is never going to be as good as a coachbuilt with all the cold bridges etc. Trying to insulate the rear doors of a panel van is such a pain some converters take them out and build a wall in its place - then put the doors on e-bay but they are still quite expensive.
 
I spent a day on the van today, general repairs before I even start the build. I thought a bit more about what to do with the back doors as even after I replaced the bottom latch there's still daylight visible through the cracks... I'm planning for extra seals in addition to replacing the usual door seals. Perhaps when I re-ply the inside, I add an overlap on the door surround and an overlap on the nearside door.

I hoped to be able to keep the practical back doors and be able to walk right through, but might consider an internal stud wall with the back doors used as a garage. It's a long van and I mostly use the side door.
 
You have done well with the cleanup. It looks great.
I will be following your progress with interest as I have an almost identical unit and I am really enjoying your adventures, so keep going with it.
As for your windows, I'm looking forward to seeing how that pans out. My van has the factory windows in the 'barn doors' so I will never have to face that one.
The first thing I did with mine was to remove the cargo barrier making it easy to walk through from the driver's seat into the back.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
Errol
 
Thanks Errol,

The bulkhead is only staying until I cut those enormous rivets off. It was the first thing I attempted once I had an empty van. I still have 2 passenger seats in the front for now, but I like the open space of a van without a bulkhead.

The YouTube channel isn't likely to launch me into online infamy, but it's a fun to do. I'm glad someone has watched them outside of my immediate circle of friends and family. :D
 
Interesting you-tube movies - many thanks.
I've never changed the coolant on mine because it isn't in the service schedule.
But I notice the manual mentions bleeding the system to remove air (and suggests draining by removing a hose);
Quote from e-learn workshop manual CD;
The anti-freeze not only has the function of protecting the entire cooling system from freezing, but also protects the parts that are in contact with the coolant, from corrosion and limescale. Therefore the benefits of anti-freeze should not be underestimated, even in tropical climates.



Use PARAFLU UP coolant, diluted to the correct concentration with demineralised water. Check that the dilution is 50% coolant and demineralised water. The dilution should never be greater than 70%. Concentrations higher than this could lead to overheating problems. Do not use undiluted refrigerant or water by itself. Do not add other additives or protective fluids because they may not be compatible with the cooling system. Do not mix different types of basic coolant, as this could lead to premature wear on the gaskets and/or serious overheating and damage to the engine.



If the radiator, the cylinder head or the cylinder head gasket is replaced, do not reuse the used coolant.



Switch off the climate control system.



The vehicle must be level when the coolant is replaced.



- Position the vehicle on the lift.

- With the engine cold, undo the coolant reservoir cap and remove it.


Do not remove the tank cap when the engine is hot as there is a risk of scalding.



1. Completely open bleed bolt (1a) on heater return pipe (1b).

- Raise the lift and position a suitable container for collecting the engine coolant beneath the vehicle.

1. Working on rapid connector (1a), disconnect water outlet pipe (1b) from the radiator and drain the engine coolant from the system.

- Connect the radiator water outlet pipe.

- Lower the lift and re-fill the cooling system with the prescribed fluid using the filler on the reservoir. Add fluid until it starts to come out of the bleed valve on the heater outlet hose.

- Close the bleed bolt on the heater return pipe.

- Continue filling the cooling system until the MAX level on the reservoir has been reached.

- Tighten the cap on the engine coolant reservoir.

- Start up the engine and let it idle for about 2 minutes.

- For vehicles with air conditioning, make sure that the climate control is switched off, in other words in the OFF position.

- For vehicles with an additional heater/air conditioner, make sure that the circuit is open and that the engine coolant is circulating.

- Then carry out gradual, periodic (every 30 secs.) acceleration until the engine speed is around 3000 rpm.

- This operation should be carried out until the radiator fan cuts in/switches off at least twice.

- Then switch off the engine and leave it to cool down.

- After having left the engine to cool down, top up the fluid to the MAX level in the tank if necessary.

- At the end of this operation, make sure that at least the same amount of fluid that was collected when the system was drained has been added.

- If there is any fluid left over, then the circuit needs to be bled further.
 
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eek.

I have the Workshop CD just now, but not easy to access those instructions when I'm out and about. I don't work on it at home as parking and access is poor.

I don't rember seeing any other valves or disconnectable hoses crawling around under the van. I did read up after a google search and the best I could find was kinda what I did. I didnt see mention of the Iveco 2.3l multijet in my searches.

The drain plug was just horrific. There must be a reason to make it out of soft, crumbly plastic, but it isnt coming to me. It was like it was 20 years old. Or there's a special tool to use. Or they're disposable.

edit: I don't have aircon.
 
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eek.

I have the Workshop CD just now, but not easy to access those instructions when I'm out and about. I don't work on it at home as parking and access is poor.

I don't rember seeing any other valves or disconnectable hoses crawling around under the van. I did read up after a google search and the best I could find was kinda what I did. I didnt see mention of the Iveco 2.3l multijet in my searches.

The drain plug was just horrific. There must be a reason to make it out of soft, crumbly plastic, but it isnt coming to me. It was like it was 20 years old. Or there's a special tool to use. Or they're disposable.

edit: I don't have aircon.

I've been trying unsuccessfully to copy and paste the picture showing the bleed screw in the heater outlet pipe.
I read somewhere air locks in the cooling system can be serious if they leave a highly stressed part of the engine without cooling.
 
Bleed screw should be at the highest point in the cooling system?
Looking forward to seeing more movies when you get started with the conversion.
Vans always look spacious when you strip everything out - but not so when you start putting all your stuff in and want to leave space for people to move around.
Partitions restrict the space a lot further so all the profesional conversions I have seen - even in the longer van L4 which has another 2 m3 of space - have the minimum - only the toilet is partitioned off.
So I think you might find the idea of another partition in front of the rear doors a bit restrictive?
 
Ref the roof lining I used the bubble wrap stuff with foil each side to line the roof underside front to back and a little down the side. used high temperature adhesive to tack it up generously adding some strategic wooden blocks through it. Then lined 6mm ply with the heaviest rubber carpet underlay I could find. Wired and fitted Led lights. Then used existing bolt points and the wooden blocks to hold it up on the ceiling. The foil is by far the best way to avoid cooking in the sun. The rubber is excellent sound killing, no booming or rain noise. Also glued rubber to the inner side panels and doors.
 
I initially bought the bubblewrap stuff also but after found its rvalue is based on an significant airgap each side the core resistance is tiny so its still in my shed. You have to be careful with carpet underlay as its generally opencell and absorbs water like a sponge worth testing a piece.
 
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