Hi!
New here.
I have a Ducato X230, Q14 version, front end hooked up to a AL-KO chassis rear (and an RV body on top).
Had a heavy truck shop align the rear end (torsion axle, so done with induction heaters), which worked fine, but after that it started to behave strangely at higher speeds. The guy that does our cars told me you always have to align the front after you do the rear, so I brought it in to him. He discovered that there was a small error in the toe, which is the only angle that can be adjusted, but there was also a large, almost a full degree, error in the left hand side camber. He suggested that there might be too much play in the lower ball joint.
I brought it back home (this guy is great, unless he actually adjusts something he doesn't charge anything. Send me a message if you're ever in southern Sweden and need an alignment done.) and tried to brute force everything around to see what would give, but as far as I can tell, nothing moves, apart from the play in the wheel bearings that are supposed to be there. Jamming a crow bar into the area of the lower ball joints, I felt like there might possibly a tiny tiny bit more give on the left than on the right.
Since the parts are cheap I ordered two new joints, that arrived today.

So, question 1: If it doesn't help replacing the joints, do you have any other suggestions where to look for what's causing this large camber error?

And question 2: I'm replacing these joints soon, and I'm at a loss as to where I can find a relevant service manual. Do any of you guys know how hard the nut and the four bolts are supposed to be torqued?

Sounds like the front wishone bushings to me the small forward ones, they wear on one side so if you check with a pry bar in the other directions they can seem fine. Ball joints would be knocking and are very easy to check if the mechanic says they're ok they probably are. I have seen on 4x4 when the ball joint stud was bent so I suppose thats a possibility.

Thank you.
Would the bushing be visibly worn if I took it out, if that's what's causing it, i.e. is it the steel bushing that wears, or is it the rubber?
I replaced the front left ball joint this afternoon (was a bit more work than I thought with the wishbone in place, including an unplanned gearbox oil change after I accidentally pulled the drive shaft out..), and if it's supposed to be obvious that that's the issue, it's probably something else, it was only marginally less stiff than the brand new one, definitely no easily detectable play.
Bending the stud seems very unlikely, although I wouldn't rule it out. Considering the massive misalignment of the rear axle we discovered after the new tires that was on it when we got it wore down in under 5000 km, only god knows what the previous owner did to the poor thing.. Considering it's pretty much at max gross with two people and a full fuel tank on board, and a garage big enough to take half a ton of beer home from germany.. well, it probably wouldn't take a very big pothole to bend something..

How do you go about replacing one of these bushings? I've never replaced one of this design before. I ordered one (it's probably not ideal not to replace both, but what do you do when cash flow is low), should hopefully be here in the beginning of the week.

It is far far easier and often not much more expensive to replace the whole wishbone.

It is probably a mistake not to change both bushes.

A bad strut top Mount can effect camber too.

Or a bent strut(possibility given state of rear alignment?)

Or worn bearing inside strut damper.

Is the camber adjustable at the knuckle?

Is top of your wheel tipped to far in toward center of vehicle?

Tjita1 said:

How do you go about replacing one of these bushings? I've never replaced one of this design before. I ordered one (it's probably not ideal not to replace both, but what do you do when cash flow is low), should hopefully be here in the beginning of the week.

Click to expand...

You can push out the metal tube through the middle of the old bushing, then cut the end off the old bushing and you will be able to push it out. Lubricate the hole in the wishbone and the bushing then you can pull it through with a long bolt or threded bar and a couple of large washers. You can borrow the washers from the other wishbone bushing for the job.

Hi
If replacing the bushes doesn't fix your camber problem, On our 244 model we had trouble with the front alignment scrubbing the inside of both L/H & the R/H side tyre especially, I took it to a truck wheel alignment specialist where he said the standard specs for a start were all wrong for R/H drive vehicles because of the road camber & did not suit our Aussie roads.
He corrected the toe-in which was out but discovered the camber was also out on the drivers side, but from the factory there is no adjustment for camber (or caster for that matter).
Having checked the front end out myself I said what's the problem using wheel alignment shims between the Knuckle & the strut itself by loosening the 4 bolts & placing the shims between on the top 2 bolts between Strut & knuckle for + camber or the 2 bottom ones for - camber adjustment.
They put a couple of shims on the top 2 bolts to correct to specs what was negative camber wearing the inside of the tyre.
I have since found there is a company out here in Oz that actually makes a special kit using the same principle for camber adjustment on these 244 models & I assume that the 230 model is the same.
Ever since this wheel alignment was done, when looking at the vehicle from the R/H back corner it now looks to the eye as if it has too much positive camber but steers perfectly with no abnormal tyre wear.
Since then we have done over 60,000 kilometres with no further tyre problems.
I think that the X250 models > are different again with a different method of attaching the knuckle to the strut.
Hope that helps
Cheers

Thanks for the shims tip, I'm done replacing the bushing and both ball joints now, so I'm gonna call my alignment guy for an appointment tomorrow. If this didn't fix it I'll just shim it into obedience, since I can't find anything else wrong, unless something is bent, which I'm not even going to start to try to find..

Am I correct in assuming the toe inconsistency of -0°17' on the left and -0°08' on the right might be enough to cause it being really nervous and odd handling at speed? Took a quick test drive today as I was done and it still acts really odd, but I did a poor mans check of the camber with a level and it seems to be a lot better than it was before, so hopefully its only the toe thats out now.

Tjita1 said:

Thanks for the shims tip, I'm done replacing the bushing and both ball joints now, so I'm gonna call my alignment guy for an appointment tomorrow. If this didn't fix it I'll just shim it into obedience, since I can't find anything else wrong, unless something is bent, which I'm not even going to start to try to find..

Am I correct in assuming the toe inconsistency of -0°17' on the left and -0°08' on the right might be enough to cause it being really nervous and odd handling at speed? Took a quick test drive today as I was done and it still acts really odd, but I did a poor mans check of the camber with a level and it seems to be a lot better than it was before, so hopefully its only the toe thats out now.

Click to expand...

The toe will now be different than previous measurement from work you have done.
Thanks for up date.
Good luck with alignment .

Hi
Just another point about the wheel alignment, when I asked him what the specs were that he set it up to. The reply was "It's a Trade Secret"
As I said it drove perfectly & no sign of tyre wear since, but one thing that was different was that it didn't self-center as readily as before the alignment, but that is not a problem as I am still very happy with the result.
Cheers

No secrets here, apart from the fact that the front end angles are actually in the manual, I get a protocol with all the limits, and before and after readings, nicely written out.

In fact, here's a copy of my protocol with all the limits marked out, although I don't know if the rear ones are correct, he only had access to stock Fiat angles, and the rear end on this thing is from AL-KO.