Just thought i would let you no that i had a LUK clutch fitted which started slipping van went back in for it to be inspected and when it was removed it turned out to be a VALEO clutch
They rang the supplier to find out why and after they checked there stock all the LUK clutch kits for the ducatos contained Valeo clutches
They also rang Fiat to purchase a OEM clutch and guess what its a Valeo clutch

How can LUK sell a clutch in LUK branded Packaging when in fact its a Valeo

Luk and probably other clutch "suppliers" don't make them, they obtain them from often the OE manufacturers, cheaper to buy in bulk than invest in tools and equipment to manufacture their own

OE may source from one supplier, or more than one. Any aftermarket supplier, for any make that they are not OE, they can choose to manufacture their own, or buy-in from another source. If the vehicle is popular, they may choose to manufacture, but they all swap around, so they can all provide a full range. If they all chose to manufacture their own, the prices would be uncompetitive. In this case, having a Valeo in an LUK box at a competitive price is better than a lesser brand that may have sourced from elsewhere. If copied, to remain competitive, it may be a similar spec, rather than an exact match, or just made more cheaply to be competitive.

In this case, you've got good names, both on the box and the product. Any failure will be down to damage in transit, or poor fitting. Despite their weight, clutches are easily damaged if not handled carefully.

I've always considered Valeo and Luk to be good products. Why did it start slipping?

Valeo are quality, may be wrong but a valeo supplied kit carries a 3yr warranty, or did, 8yrs since working at Peugeot and having Motaquip franchise, we sold valeo kits, OE suppliers to Peugeot group (PSA) for clutches

digger58 said:

I've always considered Valeo and Luk to be good products. Why did it start slipping?

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Difficult to tell from here. The repairer hopefully may have some idea, but often garages do not understand the full functionality of the components and can only diagnose "working" or "broken".

Oil, grease, or any other lubricant on the clutch linings will cause slip. The input shaft splines should not be lubricated with any oil or grease, especially not copper grease. If necessary, rubbing with a soft pencil is good, as the graphite stays put, does not attract dust. Any lubricant on the splines will fling onto the lining very quickly.

Any problems with the release mechanism that may effectively hold some pressure onto the pressure plate can cause slip. As can poor driver technique, resting their foot on the pedal perhaps.

What you've not told us:
1. Why did it need a new clutch?
2. How many miles covered since the last replacement, or from new?
3. What have the repairers found with the 'new' clutch, apart from its manufacturer?

Hello Clutch was replaced at 200000 miles i purchased the Van at 70000 miles but prior to this i had a EGR valve problem replaced all the parts solenoid and valve all for OEM parts but still having problems so decided to have the EGR deleted from the map
The remappers did this but also talked me into having a full re map as it would not cost me any more than just having the egr delete so i chose the 140 bhp map
this made a big difference in the drivability and an increase from an average 36mpg to 42mpg
The clutch began to slip a couple of months after the remap but i put this down to it being at the end of its serviceable life
New clutch fitted and whilst the gearbox was out i had the box overhauled as it was suffering from 1st gear throw out on inspection the box was showing signs of wear and impending 5th gear failure so had a new box installed
the new clutch started slipping about a month after installation and the gearbox was removed last week to inspect the new clutch and it was found to be as new so it was refitted this is when they found out it was a valet clutch and not a LUK clutch as purchased so i thought i would let everyone know on here hence the post
After a google search i found this forum and read about the clutch issues after remapping
i have now booked it back in to have the map removed but leave the EGR delete on
so fingers crossed this will eradicate the slipping clutch

Paul

What engine/year/std hp?

Find it hard to thing a 140 map would cause clutch slip.. having had 2.3 130hp up to 160 and 3.0 180 up to 210hp

Was the flywheel changed? At 200k a clutch change I would guess wants a flywheel too, was the slave cylinder changed (incorporating release bearing) and fluid bled, again the fluid of not bled through will be like black water.
Or incorrect clutch fitted

Or your carrying way overweight loads

Everything changed flywheel inspected and found to be in good condition with no scoring or hot spots/blueing
correct cutch kit
the company i use do all the gearbox/clutch work for my uncles transport company and have been fantastic i was expecting a labour charge for this as the clutch was found to be as new still but no charge
90% of my driving is motorway it will slip sometimes when empty but mostly on the motorway 5-6th gear when you accelerate to overtake
I'm mostly running around fully loaded around the 3400kg

the remap seems to be the only thing that i can think of atm will just have to see if having it removed is the fix

Its a 2007 2.3 multijet 120

remapped to 140 with egr delete

Bizarre mate, 20 horses shouldn't make a difference, they're good for a load more, unless they cocked up the remap, I had a 130 euro 5 2012, it ran like a bag of broken spanners from new, mpg return was pants, had it remapped through quantum, made it better, similar return to the 57plate 120 I had, but then fiat took it back at some cost! When quantum went to pop original map back on, they remapped the remap up! Probably to around 180, was a flying machine and returned 45mpg on a steady 300mike trip
But would have blown something, was rectified after a couple of days,
But just shows how easy it is to mess up.

Sounds like a faulty clutch/weak pressure plate or it wasn't cleaned before fitting. A new clutch has a film of oil on serfaces to stop corrosion while it's in the cardboard box. 20HP increase should not cause clutch too slip. Make sure the clutch arm is free and the clutch drive plate is free to move on the input shaft.(this is all normal practice when fitting a clutch but if the apprentice did it then.....)

The power/torque that a clutch can cope with will depend on the amount of friction with the centreplate, and the clamp pressure. Higher clamp pressure means more effort to depress the clutch, so the amount of 'extra' pressure above that actually required has been reduced for most vehicles. Only Fiat or Valeo will know how close to maximum the clutch is working, but is close to maximum, a 20hp increase may push it over.

Well i've got back from the Transmission repairers the clutch was removed and inspected and is showing no signs of being worn or over heating from slipping
The flywheel was inspected and is ok
We agreed to re-assmble with the same clutch as a warranty claim would be very unlikely to be accepted
The clutch was still slipping under hard acceleration on the drive home but after a week of steady driving it seems to have stopped slipping now even when fully loaded but i keep getting clutch judder intermittently only in 1st gear as of yet reverse is ok
all gearbox mounts and engine mounts are ok

Only thing not changed is the Clutch master cylinder would this cause any problems if it was failing in any way its not leaking externally

Did the fitter lubricate the input shaft splines? As per my previous post, this sounds like a tiny amount of grease on the lining. It will cause slip, and as it has burnt a little is now causing judder. It may continue to judder on take-up for ever, or you might be lucky and it will eventually burn off completely.

They use a dry graphite lubricant as i asked them that
looks like i'm going to have to put up with it and see how it goes i will change the master cylinder in the next few weeks to see if that helps or at least that will eliminate everything on the clutch side

Was it slipping with a load or unloaded
Not wanting to sound daft, but clutch slipping but looks ok on inspection, doesn't sound correct to me, also what weight are you carrying, most ducato chassis based transporters I see, would bet on being overweight, and I don't gamble

My guess would be, heavy or overweight load, and a remap would cause a slip or wheel spin as all weight is to rear

I'd live with the clutch judder. I think it is either a faulty clutch or oil/grease has got on to or wasn't cleaned off the clutch/flywheel surfaces when fitted. If you removed it to inspect it probably will show no sign of damage or contamination.
Hopefully it improves with time as it beds in. I

rolopolo said:

Was it slipping with a load or unloaded
Not wanting to sound daft, but clutch slipping but looks ok on inspection, doesn't sound correct to me, also what weight are you carrying, most ducato chassis based transporters I see, would bet on being overweight, and I don't gamble

My guess would be, heavy or overweight load, and a remap would cause a slip or wheel spin as all weight is to rear

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Like i have said in earlier posts according the Garage everything inspected seems good which are transmission specialist that do most of the work for main dealers and have been in business for 60 years i have no reason to disbelieve them and have upheld their warranty claim of any problems within 12 months of the work being carried out just bring it back
And as for running overweight NO yes to being close to the max i make sure that i'm legal as it would invalidate my insurance as most the vehicles i transport are in excess of 100k been pulled many times by VOSA and every time ok unlike our weekend warriors in a clapped out transit with a range rover on the back lol

Anyway the clutch was slipping loaded and unloaded in 4th 5th and 6th gear but as stopped slipping atm but still get the judder when pulling away in 1st going to give it another week to see if it settles down

:idea:
Just a thought from past experience.
Judder can be caused by a flywheel not fitted snug on the mating face of the crankshaft. Had this happen, bit of dirt between the two surfaces.