Hi everyone. Been using the forum for many years for solutions to the many problems my van gives me but now I'm stumped. I'm hoping someone might be able to point me in the right direction.

I've got a 2004 Ducato 11 2.0 JTD. I've never had any problems with the engine until about 3 weeks ago. One morning the engine just wouldn't fire. It turns over nice and fast, no warnings on the dash, just doesn't start. Worked fine when I parked it the night before.

I checked,
Battery, is new and good, alternator is charging 13.5v+
Good voltage at the glow plugs 12v+
Good fuel delivery to the high pressure pump
Voltage at the injectors, less than 1v when cranking
All fuses and relays checked and ok

In trying to diagnose the issue I flattened the battery so took it out of the van to charge it. I replaced it a day later and the engine fired first time as if there had never been a problem. The van has run fine since until a couple of days ago when exactly the same problem reoccurred. Engine spins but does't fire. This time I thought I drained the battery a bit turning the engine so within 30 minutes I got got a jump start and the engine fired straight away. The van was then fine for the rest of the day making several starts. This jump start may well have been a co-incidence as the following morning the problem was back so the van sat for day until yesterday when I started looking at it again.

I have now cleaned the cam sensor and checked over all the electrical connections I could find in the engine bay as well as the earth points and strap. Having read some similar issues on here I tried squirting a little 'easy-start' into the air intake. Hey presto the engine bumbled into life and settled into normal idle. I took it for a drive and it started up fine when stopped. This morning it won't start again.

I'm thinking something is not reaching the required level on turn over for ignition, the ecu isn't opening the injectors, but the easy start pushes that a little bit and things start running. Either a sensor is playing up or there's a pressure issue with the bosch pump. I have a new crank sensor but I haven't fitted it yet because I can't find it. I would imagine it's somewhere near the flywheel? Is there a source for sensor resistances, particularly the fuel rail one, I could use to check them?

Any ideas on what the source of this trouble is would be greatly appreciated. I have been looking at an ecu diagnostics/fiatecuscan. I'm not sure if this will help as I've never used one before but will get one next week after the bank hols.

Thanks

Hi , could be your immobiliser playing up . What's your mileage by the way . And the position of the crankshaft sensor may need to be altered . The fiat ecu scan is quite easy to use , I downloaded the trial version , and bought a lead from eBay ,hope you get it sorted . Regards Gary

Do an injector leak off test probably a leaky injector.

Thanks for the responses and sorry for the delay in reply. I managed to get myself hospitalised playing football at the weekend. Anyway...

The van has done about 65,000 miles. If an injector was leaking are we talking leaking fuel into the cylinder or leaking outwardly? If it was the former I imagine it would fire. If the later then I the pressure rail pressure would be compromised and a the ecu wouldn't start the engine.

If my immobiliser was playing up and stopping the engine running I don't understand how it would then run with easy start and re-start time and again after. Hmmm...

I'll get an ecu scan sorted as that's about all I'm up to at the moment and post the results.

Thanks again.

Antporter said:

Thanks for the responses and sorry for the delay in reply. I managed to get myself hospitalised playing football at the weekend. Anyway...

The van has done about 65,000 miles. If an injector was leaking are we talking leaking fuel into the cylinder or leaking outwardly? If it was the former I imagine it would fire. If the later then I the pressure rail pressure would be compromised and a the ecu wouldn't start the engine.

If my immobiliser was playing up and stopping the engine running I don't understand how it would then run with easy start and re-start time and again after. Hmmm...

I'll get an ecu scan sorted as that's about all I'm up to at the moment and post the results.

Thanks again.

Click to expand...

Worn injectors often leak to the return the pressure in the rail needs to be somewhere between 180 and 300 bar for starting depending on the engine. If you're one bar under this due to a leaky injector the ecu will not fire the injectors. Increase the engine rpm thus the pump rpm/pressure by push starting/jump starting/easy start and you'll can bump the pressure enough to start. The scientific way to check the injectors is by attaching pipes and graduated containers to the return and measure the leak off if one is sinificantly different thats usually the culprit. Generally though by the time you get to a no start the bad injector can be eyeballed by just pulling the return a visually assessing the leakage.

A bad battery/weak starter can also be an issue by not turning over the engine at sufficient rpm but you'd hear that,

hi i have just bought a fiat punto mk2 diesel not the jtd just a strate diesel 1.9 for 250 10 months mot and 2 months tax ive replaced starter motor because it was broke all exaust moutings serviced it new injecters that ive fitted and i have spent a thew hours polishing. It i will get some photos up later and see what you all think its a year 2000 its just the tax that's got me its 170 pound for 6 month i really do like the car tho replys please im Connor by the way im new to this sit

Hi Connor & welcome. You're in the wrong part of the Forum. This is for Fiat commercials. You might like to re-post in the Punto sub-forum of the Fiat cars section.

Thank you all for your help. I'm more mobile and managed to plug the laptop in and have confirmed that on turnover the fuel pressure is only reaching 100bar maximum on turnover. The engine spins at full pelt as normal and the readings from multiecuscan indicate no voltage drop and no error codes.

If I get the engine started with a little easy start the pressure reading are 'normal' i.e. at 300bar at idle and increase as the throttle is opened. If an injector is leaking I assume it will still run on once the engine fires. I was worried that the fuel pump had gone.

One thing that I can't fathom is once the engine is up to temperature, why does it start ok everytime? The computer readings confirm 300bar fuel pressure on starting the engine once I've taken it for a good drive to get it warm and stopping the engine and restarting.

I'll check the injectors for leakage unless anyone has another idea.

The first chart is turning over from cold. The second is with a squirt of easy start.

This one is after the 'easy start' run of about a minute, increasing the engine temperature to about 27 degrees.

Turns out it was a leaky injector. Thanks moodrater, you were spot on. I just popped on some clear tube to the leak back on each injector. No.4 was chucking the fuel back at quite a rate. It must have been 'sticking' and leaking back too much fuel as the problem was intermittent and wasn't a problem once I'd run the engine for a fuel seconds.

Thanks guys, problem solved. On to the next one!

Antporter said:

Turns out it was a leaky injector. Thanks moodrater, you were spot on. I just popped on some clear tube to the leak back on each injector. No.4 was chucking the fuel back at quite a rate. It must have been 'sticking' and leaking back too much fuel as the problem was intermittent and wasn't a problem once I'd run the engine for a fuel seconds.

Thanks guys, problem solved. On to the next one!

Click to expand...

You can get the injcetors solvent cleaned by the bosch service places. You'd probably get a second hand injector on ebay for less though.

moodrater said:

Worn injectors often leak to the return the pressure in the rail needs to be somewhere between 180 and 300 bar for starting depending on the engine. If you're one bar under this due to a leaky injector the ecu will not fire the injectors. Increase the engine rpm thus the pump rpm/pressure by push starting/jump starting/easy start and you'll can bump the pressure enough to start. The scientific way to check the injectors is by attaching pipes and graduated containers to the return and measure the leak off if one is sinificantly different thats usually the culprit. Generally though by the time you get to a no start the bad injector can be eyeballed by just pulling the return a visually assessing the leakage.

A bad battery/weak starter can also be an issue by not turning over the engine at sufficient rpm but you'd hear that,

Click to expand...

Moodrater - I think I've got the same problem. From one day to the next won't start even though turns over at high speed. Can't test the pressure so am hoping to find something by eyeballing the injectors but what do I look for and do I need to switch the ignition on?

Thanks

Update:
I've had the equivalent of the AA in who managed to start it with easy-start spray. She now starts on her own but quite reluctantly and I've got the fault code P0016 (Crankshaft position Camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor A)

Fault code P0016

The crankshaft position sensor (CKP) and Camshaft position sensor (CMP) work in harmony to control the spark/fuel delivery and timing. They both consist of a reluctor, or tone, ring which passes over a magnetic sensor, which generates a voltage, indicating position. The crankshaft sensor is part of the primary ignition system and functions as the "trigger". It detects the position of the crankshaft relays that information on to the PCM or the ignition module (depending on the vehicle) to control spark timing. The Camshaft position sensor detects the position of the camshafts and relays the information to the PCM. The PCM uses the CMP signal to identify the beginning of the injector sequence. What ties these two shafts and their sensors together is the timing belt or chain. The cam and crank should be precisely timed together. If the PCM detects that the Crank and Cam signals are out of time by a specific number of degrees, this P0016 code will set.

Should I still be driving like that? Was hoping to take it to the dealer on Monday!!!