Hi,

I bought a new Ducato Motorhome last August, £40k, it has now done 5500 miles. I was recovered home last Monday night. I own two garages employ 8 mechanics and also own a kitcar business. I use the Motorhome for trackdays and Kitcar shows. No suprise code P2002 DPF filter blocked. I only use Shell or BP fuel, it always tows my trailer with a car in it. Minimum journey is 50 miles to the nearest track. I always drive as fast as I am legally allowed to. I am waiting for an engineers report from Fiat and want to see any parts replaced and will need to know why. My garages have removed DPF systems from customers cars to resolve major problems. I am a trained diesel engineer, and will not be fobbed off with lame excuses or poor repairs. I am due to take it to Scotland later next week so it needs repairing/modifying correctly. If it lets me down again, legal action will follow. My Landcruiser is 13 years old, done 155000 miles and never let me down once. __________________

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

And your point is..................you should have known better than the rest of us then?
Luigi

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

At least being a diesel expert is shouldn't be to difficult to fix, just hope the part(s) are not too costly.

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

My point is don't buy a Fiat Ducato it is obviouly not fit for it's purpose. 2668Griffin
It is under warranty, I expect Fiat to fix it. Most Easterly Pandas
Still waiting after 3 days for Fiat Technical to tell me what is wrong with it, how they intend to fix it and why it went wrong. I was told by the 'repairing dealer' that a lambda sensor was faulty until I pointed out they are only fitted to petrol engines.

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

DPF is £1629 plus VAT

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

mikeal200 said:

My point is don't buy a Fiat Ducato it is obviouly not fit for it's purpose. 2668Griffin
It is under warranty, I expect Fiat to fix it. Most Easterly Pandas
Still waiting after 3 days for Fiat Technical to tell me what is wrong with it, how they intend to fix it and why it went wrong. I was told by the 'repairing dealer' that a lambda sensor was faulty until I pointed out they are only fitted to petrol engines.

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Are you for real? your first post stating you would take legal action if they didn't fix your car first time had me laughing.
Now this post what sort of diesels do you actually work on? of course common rail diesels have a lamba sensor,its known as a O2 sensor and frankly you should have known that! http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_LB1922.html

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

As with petrol management systems, diesel management systems use oxygen sensor closed loop control. However, in diesel systems a broadband oxygen sensor is used that is capable of measuring air/fuel ratios as lean as 60:1. Lambda (λ)1.0 = 14.7:1 on petrol engines
Yes I am for real, legal action will be taken, under the Sale of Goods act 1979. The item must be fit for purpose. If it breaks down again (still waiting after 3 days for someone to confirm what is wrong with it) after it is fixed, as has happened to other owners, Fiat can have it back as it obviouly has some serious issues in design or manufacture.

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

mikeal200,your so called knowledge is some what negligible, but i suppose owning 2 garages and having 8 mechanics working for you is supposed to make us all jump up and take your word for it that you are the dog's....thats debatable, i mean, come on o2 sensor? never herd of one then ever been fitted to a diesel?
I love post's like yours, lol
Luigi

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

mikeal200 said:

As with petrol management systems, diesel management systems use oxygen sensor closed loop control. However, in diesel systems a broadband oxygen sensor is used that is capable of measuring air/fuel ratios as lean as 60:1. Lambda (λ)1.0 = 14.7:1 on petrol engines
Yes I am for real, legal action will be taken, under the Sale of Goods act 1979. The item must be fit for purpose. If it breaks down again (still waiting after 3 days for someone to confirm what is wrong with it) after it is fixed, as has happened to other owners, Fiat can have it back as it obviouly has some serious issues in design or manufacture.

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Mmmm someone's not happy, good luck with trying to use the 1979 sales of goods act,you are approximately 5 to 6 breakdowns and about 70 days short of having any chance of winning.
serious issues with design! now you are taking the p%%s. being as it a popular commercial vehicle and starter point for numerous motor homes,one
would assume plus 100,000 units and counting then yet again someone slagging off a manufacturer based on [in comparative numbers] acceptable failures that add up to what? 1% clearly not a serious issue is it!
and as you have a motorhome,one suspect you should at least wait to hear what is what after all Fiat don't build m/homes,remember body builders do and as highly unlikely as it might be, some electrics and electronics are added
by these people. wouldnt be the first time id come across a F**k up by a body-builder leading to electronic or electrical problems on a base vehicle.

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

BAN1111 i like your words
luigi

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

Interesting response from some people, having been in the motortrade for 38 years and worked for main dealerships, before starting my own business 25 years ago, I am surprised by some of the comments. I have attended court cases as an expert witness on technical matters on many occasions, so to repeat myself, I expect Fiat to fix the problem so I can then expect a fair and reasonable time and mileage from the vehicle without failures. I also expect it to get me from A to B without breaking down
It will be interesting to see what happens.

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

i think we all expect our vehicles to get us not only from A to B but back. one would assume you should know better. and you should also know better where parts failures are
concerned instead of coming out with court action after one breakdown and a mere 3 to 4 day wait.and you should know better than making comments like " serious design/manufacture fault". before you have proper substantiated evidence,especially as
a diesel expert.!! that's what gets my goat you should know better about this type of stuff. frankly i am aghast you didn't do a diagnostic check and i don't mean just look for fault codes either..surely you have a proper bona fide auto electrician you trust? because personally i wouldn't trust 90% of the mechanics in garages to be skilled to use diagnostic equipment properly,why would you not check it for yourself first?again surely
you should know better than most.

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

Thats the point i was making.................bloody bizarre attitude!
Luigi

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

Here we go again a personal attack on me, we have scanners that will read the EOBD codes, however the vehicle does 5mph. So it was recovered to the Iveco/Fiat dealer as it is only 8 months old/5500 miles and under the manufacturers warranty. This was arranged between Fiat and the RAC.
A point worth making is the engine went into limp mode while driving at 60mph with the cruise control on towing a Brian James Shuttle trailer with a car in it.
In heavy traffic on the M1 that was an unpleasent experience, luckily the vehicles near me reacted quickly otherwise an accident could have occurred. The dealer read the codes on Tuesday afternoon and informed Fiat UK technical. I spoke with Fiat at 5.00pm tonight and was passed to yet another person who would look into it for me, four people there I have spoken to so far. Yet no nearer to getting my vehicle back or an update on how they intend to fix it, I was due at a track event this weekend and was going to Scotland next week. Everything is booked and paid for at both events.

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

Hey its not a personal. i just query your attitude considering your knowledge in this field.Yes you have every reason to be peed off i would be,but your legal attitude is miffing,its almost like you now expect it to breakdown again and soon.you are questioning the info the dealer gives you, OK we all would these days.
what most of us accept to be a lamba sensor/o2 sensor you make out like the person telling you this doesn't know the basics of his job by saying diesels don't have lamba sensors! yet in your field you should know exactly what he meant instead of splitting hairs on usable terminology...
At the moment you dont know what exactly has gone wrong,or why.yet feel vindicated
to claim its not fit for purpose!!! totally unprofessional.but i guess the timing of it all isn't helpful

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

'almost like you now expect it to breakdown again and soon'

Below is the first post, I wonder why I think the above to quote you.

Hi to all from a new member. I purchased a very expensive motor home last July (2012) built on a Ducato 130bhp as my previous motor home (bought March 2012!!) was on a Peugeot Boxer and let me down on two consecutive holidays resulting in recovery. Both of these breakdowns were directly linked to DPF sensor problems. Even though the sensor had been replaced after the first breakdown, the problem quickly re-appeared. At great considerable expense, I decided that enough was enough and exchanged the vehicle for my Ducato based motor home. I have just returned from motoring around France and have covered 6000 miles in my Ducato BUT the engine management light has come on and the Fiat garage has diagnosed the problem to be ( guess what?? ) a problem with the DPF sensor!!!! They have ordered a new sensor and I am currently waiting for it to arrive and then to be fitted.
Am I just an unlucky punter or is this a common problem? What is the answer to this problem as I am now really anxious about using the vehicle for its primary purpose ie. touring?

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

mikeal200 said:

'almost like you now expect it to breakdown again and soon'

Below is the first post, I wonder why I think the above to quote you.

Hi to all from a new member. I purchased a very expensive motor home last July (2012) built on a Ducato 130bhp as my previous motor home (bought March 2012!!) was on a Peugeot Boxer and let me down on two consecutive holidays resulting in recovery. Both of these breakdowns were directly linked to DPF sensor problems. Even though the sensor had been replaced after the first breakdown, the problem quickly re-appeared. At great considerable expense, I decided that enough was enough and exchanged the vehicle for my Ducato based motor home. I have just returned from motoring around France and have covered 6000 miles in my Ducato BUT the engine management light has come on and the Fiat garage has diagnosed the problem to be ( guess what?? ) a problem with the DPF sensor!!!! They have ordered a new sensor and I am currently waiting for it to arrive and then to be fitted.
Am I just an unlucky punter or is this a common problem? What is the answer to this problem as I am now really anxious about using the vehicle for its primary purpose ie. touring?

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Wow,and this is your justification? heck i have seen hundreds of photos in practical motor home of hundreds of fiat camper vans touring Europe, in modern years and rarely a mention of a breakdown. So i guess your two against my 100s Mmmm i am sorry i say it again cannot understand this sort of thing from a professional, i mean this last post by you is surely rock bottom.
anyway i am sorry i got side track, just this entire topic and the heading is laughable.
Dont buy a diesel because of dpf faults,or egr valve or DMFs or Mafs or ect ect ect!! and yet 10s of millions of the darn things happily motor on with relatively little problems!
Anyway hope things work out for you..

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

In that case then I can expect a quick and permanent repair of the fault and expect no more breakdowns with that fault. Just incredibly unlucky not to be driving around in a highly reliable, well engineered and designed vehicle. Oh forget to mention the one with the wrecked engine at 3 years 3 months and 27000 miles due to timing failure at startup after being parked up for two months over the winter. Another unlucky owner. That one is still being repaired after 8 weeks off the road.

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

Maf sensors and egr's are relatively cheap in comparison to DPF. The systems now fitted for Euro 5 and 6 to comply with ever cleaner emission controls, seem to me to be a quick fix and a very poor solution. As usual the poor motorist (whatever make of vehicle he buys) ends up footing the bill. The local VW dealer and other main dealers and garages often resort to removing DPF systems otherwise the cars/vans would end up scrapped. you just need to Google DPF removel to see what a growing area this is.

Re: dont buy any car fitted with a DPF (diesel particulate filter)

mikeal200 said:

In that case then I can expect a quick and permanent repair of the fault and expect no more breakdowns with that fault. Just incredibly unlucky not to be driving around in a highly reliable, well engineered and designed vehicle. Oh forget to mention the one with the wrecked engine at 3 years 3 months and 27000 miles due to timing failure at startup after being parked up for two months over the winter. Another unlucky owner. That one is still being repaired after 8 weeks off the road.

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OK i will order the horses ,everybody dump their cars motor homes lorries
40 million vehicles in the UK for those who have trouble with numbers that's
40,000,000. and i believe amongst that number you will find mercedes Bmw
Ford peugoet citroen you name them every motor manufacturer that has a few horror stories dump your merc they had injector problems dump your bms they had a bad batch of faulty turbos dump your ford injectors egr valves DMF failure's. oh hang on they all seem to have these things happen occasionally including snapped cambelts! again after 38 years one would have thought you knew this!
clearly your not happy with your Fiat,but now its getting pathetic with your examples of how poor there quality is! i cannot help thinking we are all responsible for our actions,and you bought the think new have 38 years experience in diesels so should really be better informed and have good contacts
in the trade to give you advice and you still bought the Fiat. and are now slatting its engineering quality!more like the actions of an ill informed amateur
than somebody from within the trade..

i can not help thinking that with 8 garages under your wing how do you not come into contact with these type of problems on a daily bases with all makes of vehicles!and i cannot help going back to the beginning,your a diesel expert your in the trade and having bought a modern diesel you come across as being totally dismayed that your one has had a problem!and hasn't been fixed in 3 days! so none of your garages have ever had a car in for more than a day or two ever?
no doubt you are going to say no never!
yes i am aware of some practices of removing DPFs, but am somewhat confused now, Dpf problem on a Fiat is worthy of slatting of its engineering quality yet its common for VW and others to remove them because of said problems?