Hi,
I have a 1999 Hymer motorhome based on the 2.8 TD Fiat Ducato.
The immobiliser has decided not to recognise the ignition key and at the moment it's stuck on my driveway.I've tried the both the slave and master keys and the engine cranks but won't fire and the CODE warning light on the dashboard stays on.
I've had a word with my mechanic and he's asked if anyone knows if there's a diagnostic socket on this engine. I've contacted a couple of Fiat main dealers and one said the socket is by the ECU and another said getting plugged up to the socket won't help. They went on to say I need to force the memory through so I can get the vehicle started and then drive to the nearest Fiat garage, which is about 50 miles away. They can then apply to Fiat UK for the original code (it can't be got from anywhere else!) and re-programme the system.
Can anyone out there confirm this is the only way, or is there an alternative?
Thanks,
Peter

Hi,

If your van is not common rail (i.e. not JTD) and has the red master + 2 black keys code system then you may be able to bypass the immobilser (this had been done on my 1998 2.5TD) provided, of course, you accept the consequent security risk.

Om my van this had been done by a previous owner, so can't really advise on the procedure but this has been previously detailed on this forum; if interested you'll need to try a few relevant search terms as it was a while ago.

Have done a lot of early 2.8s. If your system is the same, it can be bypassed, but requires some mechanical ability and dexterity. The Keycode Unit by the steering column talks to the fuel solenoid on the injection pump. This solenoid sticks out of the pump towards to starter motor, ie mounted horizontal, east/west. Remove any pipes, hosing, etc. in the way, eg intercooler hoses. Remove the 3 pin plug, the solenoid is secured with 2 tamper proof torx or hex screws (sorry been a few years since I did one). Once these are removed the electronic section of the solenoid can be removed, leaving a standard fuel solenoid. The 3 pin loom plug has wires from ignition, earth and KCU. Located the ign wire (live with key on), connect this to the fuel solenoid. The KCU box under the dash can be disconnected. Note: vehicle security has now been compromised, the van can now be started without a coded key.

yes i had same problem with my 98 motorhome, i chipped the security parts of the pump and disconnected the box under steering wheel then ran 12 v switch from ignition to top of pump/soleniod and it worked, then went and got after market immobiliser fitted

You can read the data from the immobiliser unit and get the pin and key codes from that, data may be corrupt in which case you can write a clean file into the eeprom chip in the immobiliser unit. These are very simple immobilisers same unit as brava, bravo, punto, panda, seicento any auto locksmith will be able to do it. Some companies will do it by post. That being said disabling it if free.

I would like to extend a thank you to Arkk for that reply, it saved me a ruined vacation!

Bypassed the immobiliser at the pump, worked great!

The only difference was that my Hymer no torx screws so I had to use a drill to get the cover off.
That was a bit tricky.

:worship:

Arkk said:

Have done a lot of early 2.8s. If your system is the same, it can be bypassed, but requires some mechanical ability and dexterity. The Keycode Unit by the steering column talks to the fuel solenoid on the injection pump. This solenoid sticks out of the pump towards to starter motor, ie mounted horizontal, east/west. Remove any pipes, hosing, etc. in the way, eg intercooler hoses. Remove the 3 pin plug, the solenoid is secured with 2 tamper proof torx or hex screws (sorry been a few years since I did one). Once these are removed the electronic section of the solenoid can be removed, leaving a standard fuel solenoid. The 3 pin loom plug has wires from ignition, earth and KCU. Located the ign wire (live with key on), connect this to the fuel solenoid. The KCU box under the dash can be disconnected. Note: vehicle security has now been compromised, the van can now be started without a coded key.

Click to expand...

Hello New to the forum got the immobiliser problem with a 51 plate (Old shape) Ducato 2.8 JTD. I have found the pump and the solenoid though mine has three pins on the connector that runs E-W that Arkk mentions (59 in the picture described as 'Diesel High Pressure Regulator). I also have a connector on the top of the pump, also 2 pin.which on this picture is Number 58 described as 'Third Piston Deactivator' Is there an override for this model of pump or am I going to have to call out the repair man? I only have one blue key for the van I've only had it two months. I bought it off a used tyre dealer who doesn't appear to have looked after it very well. I think the immobiliser sensed a problem when I was cleaning out the muck from the steering wheel and column area and disconnected the ignition wires. The van thought it was being stolen now I can't start it!

Hi,

Arkk hasn't been on for a bit so will answer on his behalf.

The early 2.8's had a mechanical pump so the immobilser was the same as the previous model and could be disabled in the same way as he described.

The 2.8 JTD has electronic injectors and a high pressure pump. I don't know how the immobiliser can be by-passed on this model, though I believe it is quite difficult as the ECU controls the fuel shut-off.

Didn't want you to start snipping any wires!

PS the blue key is the master used for re-programming new keys, you should have 1/2 black keys for everyday use.

Ah I see. The 2.8 was made in two formats!
And all this chatter about red keys I keep reading is related to the old systems too, and I can reset the whole shebang using my blue one... somehow!?

Thank you very much I shall have another search for how to go about resetting the system. fingers X'd!

Dan

I've just spoke to a chap at Fiat who says my reg number comes up with a mechanical pump and the red key system which means, if I don't have the red key then it's an entire new injection system which is obviously garbage! I've got an electric pump, a yellow box near the steering column, one blue and one black key.
They're both this shape:

Funnily the blue one has a hole where the transponder is depicted on this picture so I'm stumped and am now not sure whether I have a transponder in my key even!! The black one I have acts the same so..? I can't find an owners manual online and information regarding the keys (What I should have for the rest of the system) is becoming more and more confusing. Maybe I have a hybrid system, something which happened during the changeover between engines and body shapes. Crossingkeeper, do you have the procedure for reprogramming the black keys off the blue?

Thanks again

Dandrums said:

I've just spoke to a chap at Fiat who says my reg number comes up with a mechanical pump and the red key system which means

Click to expand...

Sounds like someone with too much time on their hands swapped a jtd into your van if the fiat guy is correct - whats your chassis number.

Are you sure you have a jtd does your injection pump look like this:
http://www.xzsy-cn.com/images/upload/090424171942DSC00726.JPG

You can forget about cutting wires and diying the JTD its not simply a case of disabling the fuel solenoid, the immobiliser function is programmatically implemented in the ecu.

I can make transponders from a dump of the eeprom in the yellow box

however ...

If theres nothing in the key and that key was successfully used to start the vehicle then the immobiliser has
a) already been disabled or
b) an immobiliser emulator fitted or
c) someone has secured an immobiliser chip somewhere in the viscinity of the key antenna. This is quite common if an engine or ecu/immobiliser combo has been changed or sometimes because people don't want to give the dealers want silly money to produce and program additional keys. In this cas ehte immobiliser chip may simply have fallen out or moved too far away from the key antenna.

First of all we need to ascertain exactly whats really under the bonnet and what sohuld be under the bonnet.

Hi,

you have not mentioned this - so I will..,

there is normally a black "ring" around the ignition barrel,
this is the "aerial" that transmits the transponder chip signal,

you may well have disturbed either the ring - or it's wiring, during your tidy-up,

maybe worth unclamping the rake/reach function of the steering column and seeing if that restores any connection,

good luck , and let us know what you find,
Charlie

varesecrazy said:

Hi,

you have not mentioned this - so I will..,

there is normally a black "ring" around the ignition barrel,
this is the "aerial" that transmits the transponder chip signal,

you may well have disturbed either the ring - or it's wiring, during your tidy-up,

maybe worth unclamping the rake/reach function of the steering column and seeing if that restores any connection,

good luck , and let us know what you find,
Charlie

Click to expand...

Yeah theres a common enough antenna connection issue on those yellow immobiliser units take it off, contact cleaner put it back on not a problem if theres no immobiliser chip in the key

While I'm talking are you sure theres no chip the original chips look like this:
http://www.xcar360.com/media/catalo...a6953de/i/d/id13_megamos_transponder_chip.jpg they are right down the bottom of the slot maybe you missed it.

Hello again and thank you for your replies thus far. I've attached a few images to help identify the van and to help me explain a few things.
The pump is indeed an electronic one, I've managed to photograph the top of it for examination, plus I can see the 'Common rail' in line with the injectors, there's a pressure sensor in the middle of the bar, it's definitely there so it's a JTD alright! The blue/Purple key is indeed missing it's transponder and there's dirt in the hole so it's been missing one for some time (It's a generic one from a key cutters, googling the code on the side has brought up blank keys). The black key has a triangle with 2 circles but NOT a 2 on it so it's code 1 however, and this is interesting, the guy I bought it from said the black one opens the doors, the blue/purple one started the engine and unlocks the fuel filler and I never questioned his advice. The blue/purple one does not lock the doors, the black one though will turn the engine over.
The circumstances surrounding the immobiliser failure co-insided with me taking the steering cowl off and giving the innards a really good clean, I also replaced a light in the dash that had gone out and gave that a good clean up too. I also fixed the heater direction control switch and the blower resistor pack which had rusted. I had the interior light on the whole time and was turning the electrics on and off with the key to ascertain progress on the heater blower repair. It wasn't until 2 hours later that when someone pointed out I'd left the interior light on that I tried to start it to no avail. The CODE light came on and stayed on and the injector symbol comes on too, blinks off and back on again and stays on. Jump starting from another vehicle didn't help, charging the battery overnight from a charger hasn't either.
So, I've either reprogrammed the immobiliser with a key without a transponder in it buy clicking the electrics on and off in an special sequence... Or the transponder was hidden in the cowl and I've washed it away.. Neither seems likely though to me, I'm not blind and I don't think the system is so fallible. I also unplugged the connectors from the barrel when cleaning and I also unclipped the antenna around the barrel and unplugged the antenna from the yellow box which seems a more likely cause, It may have thought it was being stolen, thing is if you plug it back in, what's the difference to changing the battery? I may have done something else I'm not aware of, a sequence of all those things that has buggered it up but it seems a bit crazy to me.

I put a pic of the ID plate up don't know if that's the chassis number though..?

Really appreciate your help so far I hope I can return the favour sometime.

Dan

After reading this I hope I never have trouble with the system!

My blue key is tucked away somewhere and I'm not at home so can't check, but my black keys cover all functions i.e. I never use the blue key

As it is unlikely that both your doors would have been changed it seems likely that a previous owner had problems with the immobiliser on your van and has put a complete system off a scrapped van complete with it's own blue key (the original black keys to this S/H system would be of no use unless he changed all the locks on the van as well so were binned) Your ignition barrel is probably the original one so your black key will fit but is not coded to the 'new' immobiliser antenna. The fuel filler cap is an easy changeover so also came from the scrapped van thus fitting the blue key.

Therefore if your blue key did have a transponder and if the system was working you probably could get your black key(s) coded to the ignition antenna.

I realise that I given you more questions than answers but hope the explanation regarding the keys may help in understanding the history.

Lot's of scenarios could well have played out on this van. I don't have a key that works on the passenger door either! Thankfully the barrels are easy to swap over and only £40 ish quid on ebay. I will be speaking to an auto locksmith and will hopefully be able to get a key coded off the yellow unit. No idea what has happened to the immobiliser to break it but I think it's not irreparable and I doubt it's prohibitively expensive.

Where is the ECU in the Ducato? In the dash or under the bonnet..?

I'll write a full report of how this concludes and if my experience is of help to anyone else then it's here for their benefit

Thank you everyone so far on their input. Sure is a bizarre circumstance

Dan

The dealer is wrong anyway or you gave him the wrong vin that vin number comes up correctly as a JTD.

The data in the ecu, immobiliser unit and key must match it may have go out of sync, theose immobiliser boxes are common for corruption - same box is in bravo, brava, cinq etc. etc.

Your options are get the stealer to try to resync the keys, if not they'll charge you for a new immobiliser unit, then maybe throw an ecu at the problem.
Call an auto locksmith they'll be able to recode the immobiliser unit, check your keys, check your key antenna etc.
Or get a complete ecu, immobiliser, key set and swap the lot - make sure you don't power them up separately.
They are usually on ebay for 90-120 euro but I just looked and there doesn't seem to be any for your model at the moment.

If you want to got that route worth calling yorkshire van breakers he usually has them.

If there an auto locksmith very near you he might be the cheapest option.

If you can get someone to rear the codes you could narrow it down.

The boxer and relay have an emergency start procedure if you have the code card - not sure if fiat have disabled it I doubt it - the code card is about a tenner from fiat.

BOXER EMERGENCY START
This emergency procedure enables you to start the engine only if the engine
doesn’t start because of an immobiliser problem.
If the procedure is interrupted, you must do it again. That’s why it is important
to read and understand properly the procedure before practising it.
This procedure must be done for each starting.
Procedure
1. Read the security code on the card
2. Switch off the ignition. Switch on the ignition
3. Press the accelerator pedal till the diagnostic light switch off (around 8 secs)
4. Release the accelerator pedal
5. Press the accelerator pedal as soon as the number of diagnostic light flashing
equals the first number of the security code
6. Press the accelerator pedal till the diagnostic light switch off (around 4 secs)
7. Do stages 6 and 7 for each number of the security code
8. Once you have released the pedal accelerator for the last number if the light
switch off or flash for 4 seconds, the procedure is a success and the engine can
be started.
If the diagnostic light stays on , the procedure has failed and must be done
again after a delay of 10 minutes. Start the procedure stage 2. If the procedure
succeeds and the engine starts, it means that the problem is an immobiliser
one.

Hi
I'm newbie
Your answer about removing the immobiliser is just what I was looking for ,as my ducato has the same problem .it is a 1999 2.8 idtd and I want to remove the key code imobilliser ,after looking at my pump I have the two tamper proof bolts which I've drilled out but still can't get the housing off which I hope is the black plastic part with the three cables going to it.it seems to wobble but does not come off .
Any ideas would be great
Many thanks for all the advice which you have posted already

moodrater said:

The boxer and relay have an emergency start procedure if you have the code card - not sure if fiat have disabled it I doubt it - the code card is about a tenner from fiat.

BOXER EMERGENCY START
This emergency procedure enables you to start the engine only if the engine
doesn’t start because of an immobiliser problem.
If the procedure is interrupted, you must do it again. That’s why it is important
to read and understand properly the procedure before practising it.
This procedure must be done for each starting.
Procedure
1. Read the security code on the card
2. Switch off the ignition. Switch on the ignition
3. Press the accelerator pedal till the diagnostic light switch off (around 8 secs)
4. Release the accelerator pedal
5. Press the accelerator pedal as soon as the number of diagnostic light flashing
equals the first number of the security code
6. Press the accelerator pedal till the diagnostic light switch off (around 4 secs)
7. Do stages 6 and 7 for each number of the security code
8. Once you have released the pedal accelerator for the last number if the light
switch off or flash for 4 seconds, the procedure is a success and the engine can
be started.
If the diagnostic light stays on , the procedure has failed and must be done
again after a delay of 10 minutes. Start the procedure stage 2. If the procedure
succeeds and the engine starts, it means that the problem is an immobiliser
one.

Click to expand...

Kudos to the ADMIN, this is A LIFE saver!!!!
I owe you a drink ? ?, this saved our vacations!
Should be set as a sticky post on a front page of the troubleshootig guide for example!
Thank you so much!
Br David
PS: immobiliser is now taken out of our 2002 2.8JTD camper ?