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Old 13-03-2009   #46
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

I am afraid that all the reports that I have seen show that the ecu and the mounting modifications are not the answer. A reduction in the reverse gear seems to be the solution.
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Old 28-03-2009   #47
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

I have had the BIG FIX on my X250 new cogs mounts clutch etc and there is an improvement but its not perfect,reverse is still about 8% higher than 1st.
I understand FIAT have now given up on the 2.3 unit and are switching to a FORD unit 2.2 with 6 speed box and reverse ratio same as 1st gear
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Last edited by colinfrier; 28-03-2009 at 17:57.
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Old 28-03-2009   #48
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Quote Originally Posted by colinfrier View Post
I understand FIAT have now given up on the 2.3 unit and are switching to a FORD unit 2.2 with 6 speed box and reverse ratio same as 1st gear

Given the Iveco/Sevel Vans Tie-up, I'm surprised to hear this!!!


Naturally, it is the engine mounts and gearbox, not the engine itself that is the issue!!!!!!! So I don't understand why dump an engine and have to re-engineer and perfect a new lump. Surely more cost effective to clean up the mess with the 2.3???
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Old 28-03-2009   #49
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

I have been reading the verious postings re. the juddering issues with more
than a passing interest.

I have the 2.2 5 speed version and it also judders, I have been talking and writing to Fiat Customer Care since October 2008. This week I have had the motorhome tested at a Fiat 'proffesional' dealership, arranged by Fiat UK.

The outcome was the judder was found but not as bad as the 2.3 enough however for the technician to make a report confirming my complaint to Fiat.

What happens now? Your guess is as good as mine!! One aspect of this saga not yet commented on is reversing on grass, in particular wet grass. Great emphasis is given to the engine speed at the point of full engagement of the clutch 1,500 rpm or thereabouts.

Any attempt to reverse at that speed apart from the obvious dangers, on a campsite will only bog the vehicle down, try it. front wheel drive is not good off road, a tail heavy motorhome is no execption.

I have written again to Fiat explaining that as the vehicle "was born to be a motorhome" it has to be eccepted that it will at some time have to be driven and parked on grass and unmade surfaces. and until such time that an acceptable "cure" is provided I hold Fiat responsible for any damage to the drive train.

Okay, Fiat will take a fat lot of notice of that, but in the absence of any positive reaction and the attempt to claim that juddering is restricted to the 2.3 130 6 speed box only can any one suggest a another strategy.
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Old 18-04-2009   #50
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Comprehensive article in xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. According to this article the relevant gearbox is fitted to the 130 Multijet engine and only affects a limited number of vehicles and there is no 'rule' regarding a category of vehicles. Owners who have complained to Fiat are being contacted by Fiat Customer Care. Fiat have a motorhome-dedicated call centre on 00800-3428-1111.
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Last edited by T14086; 27-04-2009 at 22:59.
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Old 21-04-2009   #51
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Ducato Gear problems

We have just bought a new Frankia 640SG Mobile home which is absolutely
fantastic; we have gone for the 2300cc.manual Fiat engine.
We had heard of problems with the reversing uphill and with the first shake down we experienced some of that ourselves after only 2500km.
Reversing, especially up hill, results in shaking and shuddering of the van and the smell of burnt metal: the clutch? Normally, when changing gear, you press down the accelerator and let go of the clutch as soon as you feel the car react. In reverse it's not possible to do that as the van reacts by shaking, shuddering and jumping.
Apparently this problem is known to Fiat but they are apparently still ignoring it,
Has anyone had this experience and how has been solved or not,??
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Old 22-04-2009   #52
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Re: Ducato Gear problems

The problem is not limited to Fiat and the Sevel partners seem to be offering different responses - Peugeot have already changed some clutches gearboxes etc. Basically the builders and converters have known about this problem for over a year. Fiat has continued to produce and converters have continued to build on what, in my opinion, is a flawed base vehicle. That may influence your relationship with the suppier of your new vehicle - it certainly would for me ! Basically play hell with Fiat and do not give up until the vehicle is up to the standard you expected when you parted with your hard earned cash. Get names and keep records of every letter, email and telephone call.
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Last edited by T14086; 25-04-2009 at 12:12. Reason: typo
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Old 22-04-2009   #53
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Re: Ducato Gear problems

you need to phone Fiat customer care!!! and get a case number which will register your problem. After a lot of grief you might get some modifications done to the clutch and gearbox.

By the way I am still waiting for a solution for my van more than a year after first contacting Fiat.

Now don`t get me wrong, I still think, that once the problem is sorted, the Ducato is a good van.

Good luck.
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Last edited by T14086; 25-04-2009 at 12:11. Reason: ad for other site again!
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Old 23-04-2009   #54
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

I am due to pick up a new Fiat Motorhome, it is still being built at the factory. Is this still a problem with new vehicles? would it be sensible to have it tested at the factory and test it myself when its delivered. If it is a duffer would I be able to refuse to to accept the vehicle.

Any advice would be aprreciated.

Regards


Robbie
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Old 24-04-2009   #55
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

The best you can hope for at the moment is the gearbox/clutch mods that make about 10% lower reverse but still 8% higher than first.The results are far from perfect and you won't see any real improvements untill FIAT have unloaded the existing stock and switched to the FORD based unit with a reverse ratio same as 1st.
Estimates vary as to how long this will take with the current downturn could be some time best estimate is end of 2009 but could be a lot longer.Sad to say your vehicle will be far from satisfactory but do make sure it has at least had the upgrade mods.
The test is to reverse up a 1in 5 slowley as you would in a vehicle with limited rear view.You will find that to control speed you have to slip the clutch or the vehicle will judder,
Good Luck
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Old 25-04-2009   #56
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Colin, there is a lot of negativity with your posts.

I understand you motorhome owners have spent an absolute shedload of money on your campervans but, surely you have to get the motorhome manufacturer/converter involved in this problem, the fault does just not lie at the door of Sevel Vans?? There is a limited issue it would seem with panel vans and chassis cabs, but motorhomes seem to give the worst problems,so the manufacturer must be involved.

As for the Ford engine, I still can't see why they'd use it. The gearbox and engine mounts are the issue, not the engine.
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Old 25-04-2009   #57
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

As I understand it the cost and time involved in developing a suitable
g box makes the choice of a proven of the shelf unit more attractive.There is certainly nothing wrong with the 2.3 engine its a fine unit.
FIAT have long advertised the X250 as being specially designed for the motorhome market and are said to approve the bodies used.Therefore when engine and transmission problems occur it falls to FIAT to sort it.
Its not true to say its just the larger units that have the problems its goes across the range.Andy Stothert the leading light in the campaign to get these problems fixed has a light weight panel van conversion is on his 3rd gearbox and is still not happy.
One big differance between white van man and motorhome owners is they take a great intrest and pride in there 50k investment and want it reliable and correct in a recent survey 78% of X250 owners complain of reverse judder and clutch burn.
The fact that FIAT have undertaken the expensive mods they have with only marginal improvements and stopped using the existing engine and gearbox is ample evidence that they know there is a major problem.
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Old 25-04-2009   #58
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Re: Ducato Gear problems

First step ring FIAT customer care get a case number then in the fullness of time you should get the mods g box and clutch etc you may have to take it to a main dealer to verify thr problem.
When modified it wont be perfect but better the mods lower the reverse ratio by 10% but it's still about 8% higher than 1st
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Old 25-04-2009   #59
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Please stop linking (or suggesting) other forums as it is spamming which is an infractionable offence and these links will be removed. I have already had to warn certain individuals about this and this is the last time. We are well aware of what is been said (often incorrectly) on other forums and telling owners to come here to complain is not in the interests of this forum. It is not allowed on other forums and will not be tolerated here.

Let me make this clear that we have no problem or issues in regards to the posts about this matter (juddering) from forum members, this is afterall a public forum.

May I suggest some of our members read the forum rules which apply to us all (including moderators) and in the meantime please by all means keep us updated of the progress on the judder(s)....may I suggest a video of before and after any modification which maybe very benefical/helpful to other members?
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Last edited by T14086; 27-04-2009 at 23:13.
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Old 02-05-2009   #60
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Re: Reversing Judder X250

Quote Originally Posted by colinfrier View Post
One big differance between white van man and motorhome owners is they take a great intrest and pride in there 50k investment

Offensive, Colin.

Don't tar all white van men with a brush.

Mine is a delivery vehicle, an ambassador for our business, an advertisement and we are owner operators.

The pride we take in our 22,000 investment is the fact we are still running it (yesterday it clocked through 143,000 miles). It still looks and drives like a van with less than a third of that mileage and it is regularly maintained. We're currently off the road less than 3 days a year. It's never not started, on its original battery, and doesn't suffer from electrical problems where it's laying on a drive for 6 months of the year . Right, I'm even now!!

As for Fiat UK, they paid for a repair to the injection wiring loom when the van was 3 and a half years old! Even though it was carried out outside the Fiat Dealer network by a Bosch injection specialist.

I can understand you have the rats about the problems with the judder, but don't offend or take your anger out on the members of this forum.

The Fiat ducato is a long running model spanning a few versions, there are members on here with vehicles that you may think aren't worth bothering with, but we should respect everyone needs. If it's got a Fiat badge, it shouldn't be downtrodden or out of bounds!
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Last edited by T14086; 02-05-2009 at 15:47.
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