Hi everybody, I have come here looking for some help and advice -
I have an 05 1.9 jtd Doblo van that is driving me nuts - Sometimes you can go to it and will start no bother, next time it will kirn and kirn with no joy - hot or cold !! If you give it a push while in gear for a short distance - then get in and turn the key it will start !!? Not very handy if on the flat. I have just put a new battery on it but not the answer, also checked fuel filter and supply all looks good. Anyone have any ideas' - did hear mention crank sensor ? the van has never cut out with me once running.

bissum said:

Hi everybody, I have come here looking for some help and advice -
I have an 05 1.9 jtd Doblo van that is driving me nuts - Sometimes you can go to it and will start no bother, next time it will kirn and kirn with no joy - hot or cold !! If you give it a push while in gear for a short distance - then get in and turn the key it will start !!?

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Hi, and welcome,

over time the insides of the main earth lead can corrode / break down..,you shoving the van may just disturb the poor connection..,
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/340765-bad-500-starting-1-2-8v-pop.html

the test is put a jump lead from battery negative pole to the engine casing, bypassing the dodgy lead..if it starts like this when otherwise "DEAD" then you'll know,

let us know what you find.,

Charlie

Sorry to say - already tried that with no joy.

bissum said:

Sorry to say - already tried that with no joy.

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OK - back to basics;

are you saying it doesn't turn over.? or spins but doesn't run..??

if it doesn't turn then it's basic electrics,
signal from key to starter

if it's spinning - then it's more complex

you need a timed pulse of injection,
can be a sensor, determining crank / cam timing,
or getting the correct rail pressures to inject properly

have you plugged into OBD port..??

let us know..,
Charlie

It turns over but just won't fire !
I must admit that it is a friend (has a loan of it for removals) who tried the earth lead so I asked him where he connected the earth to - he told me he put the lead to the top of the suspension !!!! Duh - I didn't know that so have told him to put it to the engine and am waiting for him to let me know how he gets on.

Still waiting to find out as every time he has tried to start it - It has !!!

bissum said:

It turns over but just won't fire !
I must admit that it is a friend (has a loan of it for removals) who tried the earth lead so I asked him where he connected the earth to - he told me he put the lead to the top of the suspension !!!! Duh - I didn't know that so have told him to put it to the engine and am waiting for him to let me know how he gets on.

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Getting the codes read is ideal..before spending any money..

Charlie. Oxford

varesecrazy said:

OK - back to basics;

are you saying it doesn't turn over.? or spins but doesn't run..??

if it doesn't turn then it's basic electrics,
signal from key to starter

if it's spinning - then it's more complex

you need a timed pulse of injection,
can be a sensor, determining crank / cam timing,
or getting the correct rail pressures to inject properly

have you plugged into OBD port..??

let us know..,
Charlie

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I have exactly the same problem and symptoms and an OBD reader but cant find OBD port. can you point me in right direction to find port.
Thanks.

Looks like it's behind a panel in front of your right knee where the fuses are.

Hi,
normally adjacent to interior fuseboard,
Charlie

Well he phoned this morning and it started first thing - 2 hours later wouldn't start so put a cable from the battery earth to the engine and no joy !! He gave it a push in gear and tried again - it started no bother !
Any ideas ?? I have one of those code readers that I used on a vauxhall that I had and sure they are OBD11 - would it work on a Fiat ?

Plugged my code reader in and no faults logged !!
Must surely be a bad connection somewhere as was said - if it won't start you just need to push it while in gear - just a couple of revolutions of the engine - go back in and it starts with the key. !!!!

bissum said:

Plugged my code reader in and no faults logged !!
Must surely be a bad connection somewhere as was said - if it won't start you just need to push it while in gear - just a couple of revolutions of the engine - go back in and it starts with the key. !!!!

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Hi,
it's probably worth trying a new crank sensor..as they don't tend to leave a fault code..

maybe remove and clean it 1st.., just as a quick test..,
Charlie

Well my new Bosch crank sensor came today - will fit it at the weekend due to the bad weather.
Just thought that I had better mention my flashing glow plug light - after start up - assuming it's just a bad plug !!
Also my headlights have dimmed a couple of times while driving ?

bissum said:

Well my new Bosch crank sensor came today - will fit it at the weekend due to the bad weather.
Just thought that I had better mention my flashing glow plug light - after start up - assuming it's just a bad plug !!
Also my headlights have dimmed a couple of times while driving ?

Click to expand...

hi,

read the fault code for the glow plugs
the test in the Stilo GUIDES will be useful,

worth checking your charging system - as a poor battery / voltage will also effect diesel starting,

Charlie

A flashing orange coil symbol on the dashboard is often confused with heater plug problems as the same symbol is used to denote when they are activated with key on, engine off.

But when it's flashing while the engine is running usually means there is a fault with the fuel system.
It's rather like the "engine check light" warning, but for the fueling on a modern diesel.

Poor starting problems on diesels (and now the flashing coil) can signal to rail pressure issue.
They need to generate very high rail pressures on the starter before the injectors are signaled to fire and can very easily fail to reach the right pressure, it's usually written in handbooks to depress the clutch on a diesel to start as it takes some load off the starter motor and helps it spin the crank faster.

Bumping it in gear might cause the engine to turn the pump quite quick and help generate that rail pressure, then if cranked before it leaks off, it'll start easier.

If you've a diagnostic tool you should be able to log the rail pressure when cranking,
You're looking for something around 250 to 300 bar before it'll fire the injectors.

Some reasons for low rail pressure are, pump knackered, air/water in the system, injectors leaking off excessively, rail pressure relief valve open.

I did manage to find the crank sensor but cannot find the other end with the plug - the sensor on the van has a plug already on it but the one I got doesn't - have I got the wrong sensor ?
I did take the old one out and gave it a good clean, so will see how it does.

The part I don't get about the starting issues is that the van started fine all the time last week and then suddenly yesterday - no start - put it in gear gave it a push - jumped in an turned the key and away it went !!
The van will do this when cold - in the morning or when it is warm so can it be anything to do with the pump ? Did you mean 250 - 300 psi and not bar ?
Is there any way to check the pressure relief valve and what does it look like ? Is it on the fuel rail with a plug ?

I'm not overly familiar with this models setup, but there's usually a relief valve on the rail, so they could be up to 7 ports on the rail,
1 supplying from the pump.
4 to the injectors.
1 returning to the pump/filter (with a pressure relief valve)
and 1 with a sensor in it (rail pressure sensor)

Though some manufactures use a valve in the pump to regulate rail pressure.


No, it's around 200 to 300 bar, not psi, before they'll fire the injectors, but scan tools can sometimes report in kilopascals (kpa).
1 kpa = 0.01bar, so you're looking for something in the region of 20000 to 30000 kpa when cranking.

As written, they require large rail pressures to start and massive pressures to run, it's not unheard of for rail pressures to peak at 2000 bar when running and as you can imagine, any small leak, contaminated fuel, clogged fuel filter or an injector leaking off slightly too much fuel and the pressure will drop drastically and cause all sort of starting and running issues.

That's some pressure.
I will try to get a pressure guage but what I don't get is why the non starting is so erratic - works fine for over a week then won't start until it gets 2 turns of the engine - warm or cold ! Give the engine just 1 turnover and try with key - it will start but takes longer !!
Plenty of fuel coming out the pipe when ignition is switched on.
Could it be electrical ?