Sorry if this ones been done before.

With the price of diesel going through several roofs and the Government and Oil companies having a vested interest in not doing anything about it, would it be a good idea to have a definitive guide to alternate fuels? (written by someone with far more knowledge than I have)

I've been trawling through the net but I keep coming up with lots of contradictory information.

The only thing everyone seems to agree on is you must have a Bosch fuel pump. There even seems to be problems with what defines bio diesel. (for instance I've just come back from France where all diesel contains about 5% bio - but isn't called bio diesel). Whereas in the UK it gets called bio diesel with the same mix - and you pay more for it even with cheaper ingredients.

What is wrong with just pouring in Tesco rapeseed cooking oil ?(say 50/50 with diesel). Should it have a seperate tank and/or a fuel heater? Some add white spirit or unleaded to it. What ratio?

How about waste cooking oil? I know it needs to be filtered but then what? The companies that sell equipment to process this waste oil charge anything from £100 to £2500 for it. They can't all be right.

I'm led to beleive that there is no duty charge if you make less than 2500 litres of fuel a year, but if you're just pouring in new cooking oil then surely you're not actually making a new fuel, so what then?

What about manufacturers warrantees? My car is over 3 years old so that's not a problem for me but what about newer cars? (Some say Fiats warrenty effectively lasts for about a week but thats for another post).

I've also read that cars made since 2004 shouldn't run on bio. Why not? Mines a 2005 1.9jtd - an engine design thats probably about 10 years old.

I probably have loads more questions and I'm sure so will other people. Hopefully theres someone out there with the answers.

I think you've seen the same websites that I've looked at as I keep coming up with similar answers.
Goat industries are one of the companies that sell a 'home brew kit' but they're one of the more expensive ones at over £2000 for the full kit. They do a more basic set up for a lot less though.
They use old cooking oil, filtered and basically mixed with methanol. This will apparently run any Diesel, old or new.
Other websites like bio fuel filling stations reckon any Diesel engine will run on 100% rapeseed but I wouldn't want to risk it on a newish car.
I don't know what the definitive answer is but I reckon if you used a mix of rapeseed and mineral Diesel your car would be ok.
But rapeseed isn't cheap any more, it's almost as expensive as Diesel if you only buy a couple of litres so you wouldn't gain much.

I was just asking my wife about this (she does the shopping ) and she said that rapeseed was about 50p a litre about a year ago and now it's £1.27 a litre.
I wonder why :chin: ?

When I first looked at this I thought I might get away with a hefty mix of diesel & rapeseed - couldn't find it on any shelves (I wonder why?).
Fiat's take on the dobbin/warranty is that they are happy for us to use a 5% mix (as you would find at the pump).

I was looking at the Norwegian electric doblo. If only I had seen that before I bought the oil burner.

If you are planning on running with Veg / Rape or other green oils instead of, or mixed with dino diesel you better grab yourself some fuel filters.

These fuels tend to drag the dregs up from the bottom of the tank !

Remember that without a fuel heater (hunt for Saverbee on fleabay, he has good cheap heaters) you will need to reduce the mix in winter, as these fuels gel at a higher temperature to dino.

Also remember you will get cursed by hungry builders following you down the road

Is the MPG the same on bio fuels? How often does the fuel filter need to be changed? Does it make using Millers a waste of time?

topcat5 said:

Is the MPG the same on bio fuels? How often does the fuel filter need to be changed? Does it make using Millers a waste of time?

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I ran my truck on Veg oil, I lost about 1mpg, once the crud has risen from the bottom of the tank the filter could be changed as per normal.

If you are using someone's 'wonderful' biodiesel the filter change intervals are decided by how much muck is in suspension - ie when the power drops off as the filter gets clogged - believe me you WILL know when it's clogged

Finally bit the bullet the other day, noticed most garages had put their prices up from 132.9 to 133.9 (diesel) but my local Esso hadn't so I shoved in 45 litres on my way to Tesco. Whilst inTesco, I noticed their cooking oil was £1.35 for 3 litres (& it was rapeseed) so picked up a bottle & emptied it into the tank.
Just done 220 miles (26 after filling & the rest today, 120 was motorway.) to pick up a large trailer. Spent most of the journey in 5th gear at 70mph (60 - 65 with the trailer, but still mostly 5th) and the needle is on halfway (normally 200 miles of town driving).
Happy to say the engine never missed a beat & it seemed more than happy to tow in 5th at 60-65, with a bit in reserve for overtaking (at 70!).
Next refill I might try 4.5 litres of veg then brim it with diesel.

This is what I intend to do but I really wanted to hear from someone else who's done it first. Which engine/ fuel pump have you got. I've a 2005 1.9 JTD 105 with a Bosch pump. Are you planning to change the fuel filter?
I guess there's quite a few people on the forum who'd like to know how you get on.
Please keep us all updated.

Well done Sludgeguts, glad you could find oil that cheap.Response to Rustymini, Yes 2500 if making bio free of duty, Veg oil a bit complicated the duty is removed from ether fuels Bio is really FAME fatty acid methyl ether, but dependent on where you are in the country depends bizarrely if customs and excise recognize veg oil as an ether or not. you think there would be a standard. Then VAT comes into play veg oil food no vat used as a fuel vat is payable. Sorry more confusion.

Mine's an 06 plate 1.9jtd.
It must have a fuel pump & filter somewhere but as it's fairly new, I've not ventured under the bonnet just yet.
Mate of mine is going to costco soon, I've asked him to price up a drum of veg oil.
His mechanic reckons his motor (03 frenchie) will run on just veg oil but he should expect around 10% drop in power.

Costco £17 something a drum 88p ish per litre

http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/vegetable.asp

Don't want to put a downer on your bio/veg expoilts as money saved is money saved but found this non industry fuel pump guide.

Yet again its worth knowing how good the fuel pump and injection system on these doblos are before taking a gamble, this from independant specialists not the manufaturers.

The Lucus pump again is getting a real bashing!!

About to try Bio from a local supplier,looks like he is using the best ingredients and filtering the brew. Report will follow.
Anyone like to start quoting prices?

If veg oil/bio can damage the pump in some cars including Doblos, how come some countries, possibly the UK included, are putting 10% veg/bio in all Diesel fuel.
Won't there be a lot of people with damaged injectors/pumps as a result, or is a small amount ok?

Lets clear up the definition of biodiesel and waste or straight veggie oil.
(BD, WVO, SVO)
BD is no longer veggie oil it has been changed chemically through a variety of methods the most popular of which is the methoxide method using methanol and sodium hydroxide. It does not have the same properties as its feedstock. It has lower viscosity, has a lower cloud and gel point. It does not eat fuel pumps or injectors unless they are constructed with rubber not neoprene components. Any reputable BD supplier will filter and pH balance his product. In my experience it is entirely safe to run modern engines on 100% BD. I have been running my Marea 2.4 JTD and brother running his Doblo 1.9JTD on self produced BD for 2 years. I haven't even had to change a fuel filter.
WVO is old chip fat which DEFINATELY needs to be filtered down to 5 micron and is generally deemed suitable for older engines. It has viscosity and gelling issues in cold weather but I do sometimes use 50/50 filtered WVO for my boat engine (1.9TD ex tempra engine) during the summer. I would not recommend using WVO on a modern JTD engine as the costs of replacement parts are so prohibitive its not worth the risk.
SVO is straight from the bottle so does not need filtering. I would not recommend using it more than 50/50 in a JTD unless you are stuck by the side of the road with no fuel. I personally wouldn't risk SVO in a JTD.

For me the decision is easy. BD is the way for JTD's, WVO and SVO for older engines. Make it, test it, use it. It doesn't smell, effect performance or mpg. My emissions actually dropped from dino diesel to BD at the MOT.

but I thought WVO was mixed with methanol and sodium hydroxide after filtering.
If it has been, is it then called BD?

At last we're getting somewhere, yes if the oil has been processed either waste veg oil or new veg oil it becomes bio diesel. Now running my 52 plate doblo on 100% bio not changed the filters no smoke on start up and none under heavy acceleration either. by the way it has a lucas pump still no problems, how bad am I. I bought the doblo as it was diesel no hand book or anything what are the tyre pressures please some one, thanks.

helter said:

I bought the doblo as it was diesel no hand book or anything what are the tyre pressures please some one, thanks.

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I can look in Mrs_G's handbook when she get in for you. What model is it and what tyre size?

helter said:

Year 2002
Model sx
Engine 1.9 Diesel (what type?)
Colour met blue

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2.3 bar front...2.3 bar rear (Van, 7 seater or heavy load, 2.7 bar rear)