Hi

I gather from reading around that a spare key for my car would cost
£ 100 if I went to the Fiat Main Dealer. Does anybody know of anywhere that is a little cheaper? Regrettably the key suggests that it has a type 2 immobiliser (as the car is a 56 reg) so I don't know how easy they are to copy ?


thanks

Dean

Dealer only

It's times like this that you discover the dealer has your testicles on a platter

actually after yesterdays budget the goverment now have them & are tightening their grip

I got a spare eventually after I discovered that (6 months ago) there wasn't a sensible alternative. You can get the blanks, some non dealers claim to be able to program them but you have to have the vehicle or other key on hand... and then of course you need the key code which has been held centrally to save you from handing it to a car thief - like the brain surgeons in the dealer parts department are the gold standard in secure data handling...

So in the end it was easiest to hand over the cash to the dealer and say 'new key please' - which they did pretty well... then they fouled up something else and waived the cost. So it all worked out

Rob

Can someone confirm if the key does have any special powers? My new Doblo came with one key that operated the central locking remotely and one plain one that you have to use manually. I know the Doblo doesn't come with a alarm as standard. It sounds from this thread that both keys still do something to unlock an immobilser .........which is something I wasn't aware of - however I have given up reading the instruction book (as I've said before it was clearly translated into English as a Italian primary school project).

You guess right. All Fiats (well pretty much everything these days) include an immobiliser and the keys have to be registered with the ECU. A blank cut to the right shape will work the mechanical part of the locks but not start the car until they are 'programmed'.

Older variants of this system had workrounds but that doesn't seem to be the case with the new one... it was easiest to pay the dealer :yuck:

Regards
Rob

Guys...it may not be the cheapest system (then again look at other car manufacture prices for keys!) but its effective..........anyone actually had a fiat stolen?

I think the biggest moan here is that while the car obviously comes with 2 keys no one says until it arrives that only one is a remote key...

Now it would have cost bugger all to make a second remote key at the factory but now if you want one it's going to be about £120. I'd be happier have the dealer out of the loop so a registered owner could buy keys direct from Fiat HQ.

There's no denying that the system works, but it should work around the customer not to help entrench some spotty kid at the dealer as the guardian of your immobiliser.

Rob

Tango Dioblo said:

I'd be happier have the dealer out of the loop so a registered owner could buy keys direct from Fiat HQ.

Click to expand...

sounds good, but you could say the same about any spare part. Spares and servicing are what seem to keep the dealers ticking over as I don't think they make much on the actual sale of a new car. 2nd hand cars are a different story.

Tango Dioblo said:

Now it would have cost bugger all to make a second remote key at the factory but now if you want one it's going to be about £120. I'd be happier have the dealer out of the loop so a registered owner could buy keys direct from Fiat HQ.

Click to expand...

but you couldn't use it until programmed

Never had this problem, as Mrs O had an alarm fitted. I have the non remote key, but the alarm fob does it anyway

T14086 said:

but you couldn't use it until programmed

Click to expand...

By 'make at the factory' I obviously meant that they just supply 2 remote key. Not supply an unprogrammed blank which is no use, obviously

I gathered from the dealer that they cleared £75 on the sale of my Doblo so I can understand that they want to hold onto as much custom as possible. They have had all the servicing so far but have screwed up almost everything they have touched so I doubt they'll keep that business :bang:

My gripe is that unecessary cost is engineered in by dopey logistics and the customer shouldn't be forced to go to the dealer. I'd be glad to go to a dealer who was motivated to try hard and didn't lazily rely on the captive customer having to come back.

Rob

P.S. I'm not saying that any other bunch are better, but that doesn't make it right.

Tango Dioblo said:

They have had all the servicing so far but have screwed up almost everything they have touched so I doubt they'll keep that business :bang:

Click to expand...

This is the main problem I hear from so many Fiat owners.
Why is it that when they are making so little on the sale of a car, and they know they need to keep the customer coming back for servicing to make a living, why can't they make sure they get it right?
I've only had one service so far which went perfectly and was a good price. Either I was lucky or my local dealer is one of the few good ones. Hopefully it's the latter (touch wood )

Tango Dioblo said:

There's no denying that the system works, but it should work around the customer not to help entrench some spotty kid at the dealer as the guardian of your immobiliser.

Click to expand...

I gather you know how this works so there's no reason to play dumb.

Part of the cost of the 'spare' key (the one you buy after you discover that only one of those supplied with it was a remote) is to get the code passed to the dealer. That code is withheld from the owner for security...

So the dealer gets the code to make new keys for your car... and you don't.

Rob

Tango Dioblo said:

I gather you know how this works so there's no reason to play dumb.

Click to expand...

I'm not dumb (matter of opinion) its just your last post didn't make sense,hence the confused smilie.

Tango Dioblo said:

Part of the cost of the 'spare' key (the one you buy after you discover that only one of those supplied with it was a remote) is to get the code passed to the dealer. That code is withheld from the owner for security...

Click to expand...

Rubbish,where did you get this info from?.......you can get a code card from your dealer (proof of ID & ownership required) for yourself if you want it.

Tango Dioblo said:

So the dealer gets the code to make new keys for your car... and you don't.

Click to expand...

No...dealer dont make keys they come from Fiat & are made according to your chassis number.

T14086 said:

I'm not dumb (matter of opinion) its just your last post didn't make sense,hence the confused smilie.

Rubbish,where did you get this info from?.......you can get a code card from your dealer (proof of ID & ownership required) for yourself if you want it.

No...dealer dont make keys they come from Fiat & are made according to your chassis number.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry if 'dumb' was a bit strong, but I do think you are choosing to misunderstand.

The code card is not supplied to the buyer with the car. I was told by the dealer and Fiat that it is retained and held centrally for security reasons.

When you ask for a spare key to be 'made' they need the code so it has to be requested. My dealer didn't want to supply it to me - so they have access to it and I don't. I wasn't delighted by this arrangement but Fiat confirmed this - Fiat's tech people are however prone to supplying different info on different days. Given the difficulty of dealing with my dealer, the limited chance of needing a third remote key and the likelihood that it would be from the same dealer meant I just let it lie...

I guess if you want to be pedantic the key is 'made' in several stages. It is completed by being matched to the vehicle - both electronically programmed and mechanically cut. My dealer insists that it plays a part in both processes, and needs the code card, the vehicle and the other key.

I think supplying 2 complete remote keys with the vehicle would have been a more attractive, convenient and cheaper option.

Rob

Tango Dioblo said:

I'm sorry if 'dumb' was a bit strong, but I do think you are choosing to misunderstand.

Click to expand...

Perhaps it was the 'way' I read it but it didn't make sense to me....and I dont know what 'entrench' means or what a spotty kid has to do with it,anyway here goes.............

You have a immobiliser number, a key number & a remote number (some of these might not apply depending on vehicle/age/variant)

immobiliser number - this is the number needed to programme your keys into the body computer.This can only be done by examiner & must be carried out when a new key is purchased.

remote number - this is the number required to programme the remote part of the fob into the locking/alarm system again this can only be done with examiner,however mainly applies to Alfas.
Some remotes on fiats work straight away when purchased but most require the above immobiliser recognition sequence of keys to be carried out first before the examiner operator can carry out the remote learn sequence. This is why the garage requests you bring in all available keys because any not present at the time are wiped from the memory & become unusable.

key number - this relates to the cut of the key.

The factory holds all the above codes for reference/security. The ISR holds the above info in the UK (and radio code if applicable) it is from this orginisation that the dealer gets the information to programme new keys. However if the customer has previously ordered a key card (with immobiliser number on it) and has it with them at time of going to garage to get a new key programmed then the dealer does not have to contact ISR thus saving time & in my opinion should get key programming carried out cheaper.

So what if the ISR does not hold the code(s)? This may be because the car is a import, not registered with the IRS, in this instance the dealer has to order a code card direct from the factory.

What if the locks,body computer have been changed? Unless the ISR have been informed of this & you require a new key then the dealer cant programme new key(s) to immobiliser as the codes ISR will supply will be wrong.

If I have missed anything say so.