Hello guys,

Please take a look at this video and tell me if your Croma does the same. Mine has an erratic idle/weird shaking for few seconds after a cold start and I don't have a clue why. Engine is running fine and there are no errors in the computer. I thank you in advance

Update: Sorry, forgot to put the link to the video Here it is :

Well this is the months when fate deals out all its pre christmas problems just as the card is about to max out!!!
This smells to me of weak , but not broken, glow plugs . If its ok when it warms up then its nothing to get "revved up" about . One other thing is a worry though , check the top engine mount for wear/looseness.
Mine has got a warning light for a glow plug and it is a little "lumpy" on start up but nowhere near a shake.

You are so true about this pre Christmas period Well, regarding the glow plugs, I never changed them and I am pretty sure no one changed them until now and the car has 8 years now. Weird is, I had an P0380 error this summer, which is something regarding the glow plugs, but I deleted the error and it never reappeared so I thought its was a loose contact or something. But if you're telling me this, then it must be I will look for a new set of glow plugs as a Christmas present for the Croma

Make sure you get the correct ones for the engine, don`t trust the Fiat Dealers screen. I had one changed in 2011 and they produced one that was for the 8valve version and the 16v like mine is a different length. They are available on E-Bay etc so dont`t get stung at a dealers unless you know what you can get them for elsewhere.
Don`t for get the top engine mount, my son has an Alpha 159 with the same engine as mine but on tick over it rocked about like Elvis` hips .!! The rubber in the top engine mount was like chewing gum!!. The dealer fixed it before delivery he told us it cost £150--gulp--- but we didn`t believe him but at least it was fixed at his expense.

Ouch ...well, thank you for sharing that with me. I will pay attention. I am not going to a FIAT dealer, I think I will order the OEM ones and change them myself .

I measured the impedance and current draw of the glow plugs today.

1. 0.8 ohm and 19 amp(peak)->7.5 amp
2. 1.2 ohm and 13 amp(peak)->5.8 amp
3. 1.2 ohm and 13 amp(peak)->5.8 amp
4. 0.8 ohm and 19 amp(peak)->7.5 amp

Engine temp was 85 degrees Celsius. I had to warm the engine so I can remove the plastic plug from the glow plugs as I was afraid to force that old plastic with cold engine and it did the trick, they came out easy.

Now I have to figure out which are the faulty ones, or should I replace them all ?!

Roberto, about a year ago I paid £65 for 5 (2.4) UK.

keithglos said:

Roberto, about a year ago I paid £65 for 5 (2.4) UK.

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Thanks for the reply Keith. The problem is not the price if they are the problem, but I don't know if they need changing or not. All 4 seem to work, engine starts but it judders for few seconds, then is all good.

Roberto Blanco said:

Hello guys,

Please take a look at this video and tell me if your Croma does the same. Mine has an erratic idle/weird shaking for few seconds after a cold start and I don't have a clue why. Engine is running fine and there are no errors in the computer. I thank you in advance

Update: Sorry, forgot to put the link to the video Here it is :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1t8mcmAVSg

Click to expand...

I saw the ”Press the clutch or brake pedal then turn key” message on your dash screen.

When starting the car did you fully depress the clutch pedal before turning the ignition key to ON and waiting for the warning lights to go off?

If not could this cause a problem?

From the handbook -

Diesel engines:
• make sure that the handbrake is engaged
• set the gearshift lever to neutral (positions P or N with automatic transmission)
• fully depress the clutch pedal (or brake pedal with automatic transmission) without pressing the accelerator
• then turn the ignition key to ON and wait for the warning lights to go off
• turn the ignition key to START and release it as soon as the engine has started

You made me smile, thanks
That message is until you start the car, it tells you that you cannot start it without pressing the clutch or brake, every Croma has it. My problem is at the glow plugs or at the remote engine start (glow plugs relay).

I am investigating the problem. Tried to have a look at injectors with FiatEcuScan and I get no values at injector 1, it's always 0 no matter what. Any one else having this issue ? Heated the glow plugs manually 3 times for 20 seconds each time today and the judder is still there. The judder is not continuous, more like irregular choking which makes the engine to shake for few seconds like you can hear in the video above. :bang:

Its obvious to me on hearing the sound as the engine starts up that you are on 3cylinders on start up. Judging by the outside temperature and the values on your EUS
you have a real problem with No1 injector . If you had a duff glow plug it would show up on your screen like it is on mine right now. I think it could be an electrical connection which is telling the ECU that the injector is blocked so dont bother supplying it with fuel!! As the engine warms up it could improve the connection and the ECU thinks everything is ok and supplies fuel to No 1injector. It could also be that the fuel pressure monitoring system is faulty on that injector and the same thing happening with the ECU.
Anyway best of luck

Not sure why injector No:1 deemed suspect from the readings. These reading are fuel CORRECTION fueling values and not absolute values. They are I believe are values of correction relative to one another. This being the case No1 injector is the reference injector and the others are adjusted relative to No:1 On some cars No.2 or 3 or 4 could be the reference injector. I assume the reference injector is chosen by the ECU to be the injector with the fuel injector code (every injector has a calibration code which has to be entered into the ECU) that is midway between the spread of calibration codes.

I'm thinking possible dual mass flywheel play/resonance. When starting cold the whole sequence of diesel (even petrol) combustion is a lot more jerky, but especially so on a diesel engine.

Can you park on a slope, or with your wheels half way up a car ramp. If the problem appears worse then I would say it is almost certainly a DMF wear/resonance issue.

I get the same as I park on a 1 in 10 slope.

s130 said:

Not sure why injector No:1 deemed suspect from the readings. These reading are fuel CORRECTION fueling values and not absolute values. They are I believe are values of correction relative to one another. This being the case No1 injector is the reference injector and the others are adjusted relative to No:1 On some cars No.2 or 3 or 4 could be the reference injector. I assume the reference injector is chosen by the ECU to be the injector with the fuel injector code (every injector has a calibration code which has to be entered into the ECU) that is midway between the spread of calibration codes.

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Have to bow to you on this regarding injector theory, knowing the practicalities is no substitute for knowing exactly what all the readings mean:worship:. As far as the DMF is concerned I think Scotty on the Enterprise would have had trouble with them.!!
I must admit to being the type of guy who was brought up to listen to an engines rocker cover using a screwdiver to see if the tappets wanted adjusting, Ah those were the days!
Can I have mi tablet now nurse?

tarquin1867 said:

I think it could be an electrical connection which is telling the ECU that the injector is blocked so dont bother supplying it with fuel!! As the engine warms up it could improve the connection and the ECU thinks everything is ok and supplies fuel to No 1injector.
Anyway best of luck

Click to expand...

Thanks. The values are the same even when its hot. Looking back in all my FES readings since last year, it's always been this way. Took the plug from the inj1 out and sprayed with some contact cleaner, checked the connection, but nothing changed. I'll investigate further more even tho it's not the perfect weather for it

s130 said:

Not sure why injector No:1 deemed suspect from the readings. These reading are fuel CORRECTION fueling values and not absolute values. They are I believe are values of correction relative to one another. This being the case No1 injector is the reference injector and the others are adjusted relative to No:1 On some cars No.2 or 3 or 4 could be the reference injector. I assume the reference injector is chosen by the ECU to be the injector with the fuel injector code (every injector has a calibration code which has to be entered into the ECU) that is midway between the spread of calibration codes.

Click to expand...

Yes, these are the correction values, the absolute values are in the injector code. The value shouldn't be 0, I checked another Croma with same engine and it's not 0, something is fishy here. All the injectors needs correction, there is no such thing as reference injector, because it's not the injector who dictates how much fuel is needed, that is the ECU, so the inj 1 should have some correction also, even as small as 0,01. I made a small trip and monitored the injectors correction, but nothing changed for inj 1. It may have a correction and it's not shown, I'm thinking this because if ECU couldn't correct it then I should have a fatal error in the computer.. isn't this right ?!

s130 said:

I'm thinking possible dual mass flywheel play/resonance. When starting cold the whole sequence of diesel (even petrol) combustion is a lot more jerky, but especially so on a diesel engine.

Can you park on a slope, or with your wheels half way up a car ramp. If the problem appears worse then I would say it is almost certainly a DMF wear/resonance issue.

I get the same as I park on a 1 in 10 slope.

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Hmm... Strange, I have no vibration in the car, the engine has irregular idle (850 - 950 rpm) and it shakes little bit, it's like a gasoline engine when it has air bubbles in the petrol... same feeling. I start the car keep it running 5 seconds, stop it, then start it again and there is no irregular idle/shaking, it's running smooth. And this "judder" only the engine has it, the car don't shakes, only the engine... I can't express it in words, even the video is not sharing all the details. I'll upload one from outside also.

tarquin1867 said:

I must admit to being the type of guy who was brought up to listen to an engines rocker cover using a screwdiver to see if the tappets wanted adjusting, Ah those were the days!
Can I have mi tablet now nurse?

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You can still listen to them if you like, leave the tablet, put your boots on, get outside and get your hands dirty

tarquin1867 said:

I must admit to being the type of guy who was brought up to listen to an engines rocker cover using a screwdiver to see if the tappets wanted adjusting, Ah those were the days!
Can I have mi tablet now nurse?

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AND NEVER EVER give up on these old skills which/where the current generation just don't understand the basics. Give then an old distributor, dodgy points, dodgy capacitor, brittle/internally broken carbon spar plug leads, as then to statically time and set dwell, (I could go on) and you will struggle to find any/many current dealer technicians that can do this.

And I'm fed up with the "the manufacturer's computer diagnostics say x, y, z so we need to replace a, b, and c .... and for good measure d and e as well."

s130 said:

AND NEVER EVER give up on these old skills which/where the current generation just don't understand the basics. Give then an old distributor, dodgy points, dodgy capacitor, brittle/internally broken carbon spar plug leads, as then to statically time and set dwell, (I could go on) and you will struggle to find any/many current dealer technicians that can do this.

And I'm fed up with the "the manufacturer's computer diagnostics say x, y, z so we need to replace a, b, and c .... and for good measure d and e as well."

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Indeed, well said