The process goes on
While your having a go at blanking off the EGR , about a couple of inches away from the EGR is the Intake manifold pressure /temperature sensor . Take it out and clean it -just undo the single screw and disconnect the wiring plug (be careful not to lose the screw down the back of the engine. When I did mine it came out looking like it had a black afro haircut!! cleaned it with WD40spray and a bit of GENTLE prodding /poking. The difference it made to the running of the car was .
This was due to the fact that it "provides info to the ECU to set the VGT actuator and therefore the turbo pressure, to optimise engine operation and to adjust INJECTION TIMING"
Taken directly from the Fiat training outline.
As I said try the cheap jobs first

Thanks but I have already replaced both the the MAP & MAF sensors with other used ones. I know its not ideal but the cost of keep guessing and replacing suspect parts with brand new ones is not viable for me.

After checking all the pipes I could, I tried about 3 weeks ago fitting another boost pressure control valve/solanoid and that made no difference at all either. After that, when the mechanic spotted the blown out of shape intercooler we both suspected that was the problem, either leaking or blocked, but it was neither blocked or leaking, quite how the bottom of it got blown out of shape is a total mystrey, maybe thats a clue, but I for sure dont have the answer, my guess would be that at some stage the car had a blocked DPF or exhaust and that blew the intercooler out of shape. The DPF is certainly not blocked now as I checked it in ECU scan, its regenerating nicely every 500 kms or so. Any other ideas how an intercooler gets blown out of shape anyone ?

Well the intercooler is on the inlet side and the exhaust is outlet so I doubt that they are linked. Is the damage definitely internal or could it be accident damage?

Hi Halilson - For sure not accident damage the condensor in front was the original one and the intercoolers fins were all blown wider at the bottom of the intercooler, take a look at the photo of the intercooler before it as changed, really odd.

It could've had a turbo fault that damaged the intercooler and the previous owner just replaced the turbo and not the intercooler.

A question - I believe that a faulty EGR valve can cause a stutter/misfire at around the same revs as mine, 1700-1800rpm ish, but do any of you know if a faulty EGR valve can cause the "wer wer wer" or ka ka ka, escaping air type noise ? I cant find any thread on hear where anyone has said they had a noise, even if they had a faulty EGR valve.

Thats why your problem has got most of us foxed , including me.
The explanation from Halison about a replacement turbo seems the likeliest for the intercooler mishape . However I still cannot get my head round the EGR being the cause of your "digestive" noises.
Just a point from earlier did you check the MAP you put in second hand? that could be faulty and you may be getting led up the garden path by it.

thank you again for your reply. I did'nt know anyway to check the replacement MAP sensor, so I cleaned it with contact cleaner and installed it.
The price of a new 1 was about £60, so I got one from a written off 1.9 vectra with exactly the same bosch part number. I have even tried unpluging the MAP, MAF and EGR (not together). Unplugging the EGR meant I a max speed of about 20 mph, it would not rev until i plugged in back in.

What I ideally need is another 1.9 16v croma that runs fine to start swapping parts over until I find the fault, but not even the Fiat dealer has a box of doner parts, they expect you to keep buying new parts until they finally guess the right one, so you could spend £1000 on new parts until they find out which 1 is faulty. Cant ECU scan show if the EGR is working correctly ?
The EGR reading are changing when I rev it, but I dont know what the %'s should be if its working OK

Im pretty sure the turbocharger is a garrett gt 2056.There only running at a 1-1.5bar of boost.Not enough to damage an intercooler unless of course the inlet was blocked for some reason.Steam cleaning maybe?
Its a bit hard to give a percentage opening for the egr but as a rough guide,the stuff we work on works on,

Full throttle-egr shut.

Coasting-egr open or partially open(euro 4 only)

Downhill-egr fully open.

One thing i will say is the egr opening time is controlled by the MAF and its sensing of moving air passing it.

With ecu scan,knock the cylinders off one by one and check the fuel rate,also look at injector correction values.Add all the minus values up and then all the plus values up.It should end up at zero or very close.
We need to start eliminating stuff now.Is it a fuel knock?

Thank you Buster. Do I knock the cyclinders off in ECU scan and look at the fuel rate while its just ticking over? What is a fuel knock? Other than the stutter it runs well, I have driven other 1.9 Croma's and the turbo is certainly working and their is plently of low down pull, unlike those with broken swirl flaps which are gutless at low revs.

Yes with ecu scan and on tickover.With you saying the noise-ka ka ka,is it a fuel knock and is the stutter a misfire?

The noise is like a turbo waste gate opening sound, expelling air sound and not a fuel knock. It also sounds like 2 rubber mats being rubber together quickly. I have even recorded the noise with a dictaphone straped under the bonnet !

The stutter is like a misfire, you can feel the car pulling back (kangerooing), worst on light throttle under load, the noise and the stutter accompany each when under under load at 1600-2000 rpm (worst at 1700-1800 rpm). The noise can also be heard when lifting off the throttle when the revs drop back into the 1600-2000 rpm range (its an auto dont forget).

Have you monitored the boost pressure when this happens?

Hurray !!! The Fiat main dealer mechanic was wright, he told me a big batch of new Fiat boxed EGR valves were faulty. Yesterday I blanked the EGR at its entrance, the pipe end, it has put the engine managment light on, but now I have absolutely no stuttering/missing and no woosh or ka,ka,ka noise. The car now runs perfectly, other than the engine managment light is on. So I guess its another new EGR valve thats needed. Where is the cheapest place to get a good one, a Vauxhall main dealer or Buster do you want to sell your spare new one ? If not does anyone know what's the vauxhall p/n thats the equalevent to the fiat one for the 1.9 16v 150bhp version?

Hello,

Did you already get a new EGR and did it resolve the problem? I think I have exactly the same problem. Weird noises when automatic gearbox changes from 1st to 2nd gear. Maybe it happens with a bit higher rpm on my car (1.9JTD Multijet Croma -07) but otherwise sounds the same.

I have a new EGR valve, but I have not yet had the time to put it on. I am running it with the engine managment light on, but other than increased fuel consumption it now runs perfectly.

That sounds like great news and fingers crossed the problem's solved when you fit the new EGR. I'd definitely recommend a swirl mod gasket at the same time though as it's an easy task to refit when you're putting the new EGR on anyway.
I got mine off ebay for £3.50 or thereabouts delivered from Poland and fitted new "normal" gaskets either side of it. Total bill was about £7 and probably the best £7 I've ever spent.

Just fitted a brand new Pierberg EGR valve and removed the pipe blanking plate and re-set the engine m'ment light. Result is the stuttering and woosh is back. I tried it with and without the 4 hole partical blanking plate fitted to the other side of the EGR and it stutters with both, in fact its worst without the 4 hole blanking plate. I have now re fitted the original EGR and re-installed the pipe end blanking plate. It runs perfect again now but the engine m'ment light is back on.

One idea is to try and find a way of just permantantly deleting the engine managment light linked to the EGR function, I know that its not really correct, but can it be done ?

It sounds like the fault lies with the inlet that the egr attaches to. Can't think what though!!
If the 'whooshing' is reduced with partial blanking and totally goes when completely blanked off, it sounds like the engine doesn't like the flow from the egr.
If the only error with it blanked off is an "insufficient flow" error (and it runs ok) then I suggest that you leave it blanked off and get it remapped. This will stop any future egr errors and stop all the dirty air going back into the engine and fouling up the boost sensor etc.