Has anyone done this?
Tuning 1.9 16v remap with dpf and egr delete,
- Thread starter dave
- Start date
Currently reading:
Tuning 1.9 16v remap with dpf and egr delete,
OP
OP
he is right down in Cornwall, i have mapping program and cable i just need some one to nick the new map file from
Interesting stuff, any downsides to that ?
OP
OP
i'm not sure only just got it, not even sure if our ecu's are in the list.
FIAT 1300 Multiget IAW MJD6JFH-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT BOSCH_EDC 16 C39-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT BOSCH_EDC 16C8-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT BOSCH_EDC 16C9-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT BOSCH_ME7.2.1 EURO3 Boot Mode-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT BOSCH_ME73H4 EURO 4 Boot Mode-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT MARELLI_IAW 49F /4EF-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT MARELLI_IAW 4AF / 59F ST10F186-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT PUNTO BOSCH_EDC15 C6-- READ AND WRITE
ALFA BOSCH_M2.1 -- READ AND WRITE
ALFA BOSCH_ME2.1 IBRIDA -- READ AND WRITE
ALFA BOSCH_ME7.2.1 EURO 3 Boot Mode -- WRITE
ALFA BOSCH_ME7.3.1HA EURO 4 Boot Mode -- READ AND WRITE
ALFA FIAT BOSCH M155 -- READ AND WRITE
Alfa Fiat Lancia BOSCH_EDC 15C E2 -- READ AND WRITE
Alfa Fiat Lancia BOSCH_EDC 15C E3 -- READ AND WRITE
OPEL 1300 Multiget IAW MJD6JFH-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL BOSCH_EDC 15 C7 Common Rail-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL BOSCH_ME1.5.5 E4-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL 17DTI 16V 1 DELCO-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL 17DTI 16V 2 DELCO-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL 17DTI 16V 3 DELCO-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL BOSCH_EDC 15M-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL BOSCH_M1.5.5 E3-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL DELCO 1-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL DELCO 2-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL DELCO 3-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL SIMTEC 56 SIEMENS-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL SIMTEC 70 SIEMENS-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL SIMTEC 90 SIEMENS-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT 1300 Multiget IAW MJD6JFH-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT BOSCH_EDC 16 C39-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT BOSCH_EDC 16C8-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT BOSCH_EDC 16C9-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT BOSCH_ME7.2.1 EURO3 Boot Mode-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT BOSCH_ME73H4 EURO 4 Boot Mode-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT MARELLI_IAW 49F /4EF-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT MARELLI_IAW 4AF / 59F ST10F186-- READ AND WRITE
FIAT PUNTO BOSCH_EDC15 C6-- READ AND WRITE
ALFA BOSCH_M2.1 -- READ AND WRITE
ALFA BOSCH_ME2.1 IBRIDA -- READ AND WRITE
ALFA BOSCH_ME7.2.1 EURO 3 Boot Mode -- WRITE
ALFA BOSCH_ME7.3.1HA EURO 4 Boot Mode -- READ AND WRITE
ALFA FIAT BOSCH M155 -- READ AND WRITE
Alfa Fiat Lancia BOSCH_EDC 15C E2 -- READ AND WRITE
Alfa Fiat Lancia BOSCH_EDC 15C E3 -- READ AND WRITE
OPEL 1300 Multiget IAW MJD6JFH-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL BOSCH_EDC 15 C7 Common Rail-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL BOSCH_ME1.5.5 E4-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL 17DTI 16V 1 DELCO-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL 17DTI 16V 2 DELCO-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL 17DTI 16V 3 DELCO-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL BOSCH_EDC 15M-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL BOSCH_M1.5.5 E3-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL DELCO 1-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL DELCO 2-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL DELCO 3-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL SIMTEC 56 SIEMENS-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL SIMTEC 70 SIEMENS-- READ AND WRITE
OPEL SIMTEC 90 SIEMENS-- READ AND WRITE
Mine is Bosch EDC 16C39 and yours too Dave, prolly.
OP
OP
So Dave's remapping is open for business then.
Can't you just get your existing map out, add 20 to each number and stuff it back in? Isn't that what the chipping companies do?
I'm probably not too far away from the truth.
Is it piracy to copy a car's map? I guess it was piracy when they modified the original in the first place, so it's not really their data anyway.
Can't you just get your existing map out, add 20 to each number and stuff it back in? Isn't that what the chipping companies do?
I'm probably not too far away from the truth.
Is it piracy to copy a car's map? I guess it was piracy when they modified the original in the first place, so it's not really their data anyway.
OP
OP
ive only got downloader and uploader, nothing to change stuff, be the same as the stilo lot have been doing hopefully no business, just car friends playing
Any chance of posting your original map as a file? I'd be interested to see what it looks like, or if I can make any sense of it.
I'm not under any illusion that I could make a new map, just want to see what the chipping companies do play about with.
I'm not under any illusion that I could make a new map, just want to see what the chipping companies do play about with.
OP
OP
i think i can zip it and attach the zip, i dont know what you will be able to read the map file on though
Hacker..... bit like me
One of my software patents on "Policed Object Union" (realtime dynamic inheritance) was based around the car and tractor as an example.
US Patent 6,760,913
Trouble for me at my age is my brain is getting old, overloaded and low on resource......
One of my software patents on "Policed Object Union" (realtime dynamic inheritance) was based around the car and tractor as an example.
US Patent 6,760,913
Trouble for me at my age is my brain is getting old, overloaded and low on resource......
Last edited:
Sounds baffling. I'm looking forward to seeing what map data looks like. Presumably it will be indecipherable binary, but we'll see.
It might be:
[BEGIN]
BHP = 150
REM Edita la nombrero above to maka it go fastera
[END]
It might be:
[BEGIN]
BHP = 150
REM Edita la nombrero above to maka it go fastera
[END]
Last edited:
It might be:
[BEGIN]
BHP = 150
REM Edita la nombrero above to maka it go fastera
[END]
LMAO ...nice one !
Sounds baffling. I'm looking forward to seeing what map data looks like. Presumably it will be indecipherable binary, but we'll see.
It might be:
[BEGIN]
BHP = 150
REM Edita la nombrero above to maka it go fastera
[END]
If life were that simple.
There are quite a few articles on the web about typical engine ECUs and maps so hopefully, with a little bit of effort on your part, you can cleanly identify the relevant binary data/map functions.
My previous work has included making the maps that control the transmitting power for satellites. The things in space, not the dish screwed to your house!
Hopefully an ECU map is a similar concept - look up according to one or more measurement inputs to the ECU in a multi-dimensional array and the data in each element defines what values should be output from one or more controlling outputs.
Basically the ECU gets a number of inputs, and these are looked up in a big table that defines what its outputs should be. Re-mapping involves changing these looked-up values.
Even if I could decode the data, altering it is a whole science in itself. I'd like to have a play when Dave gets some data, but I doubt that a re-map is a credible outcome.
It's more likely that if someone has had theirs re-mapped then I may be able to work out what changes they have made (and that they have actually changed it!) before we replicate it to all the 1.9 16v engines on here.
I've always been suspicious about re-maps though - I wonder how much testing they do, or whether they do just add a bit to every number in there. Hopefully we can find out.
Hopefully an ECU map is a similar concept - look up according to one or more measurement inputs to the ECU in a multi-dimensional array and the data in each element defines what values should be output from one or more controlling outputs.
Basically the ECU gets a number of inputs, and these are looked up in a big table that defines what its outputs should be. Re-mapping involves changing these looked-up values.
Even if I could decode the data, altering it is a whole science in itself. I'd like to have a play when Dave gets some data, but I doubt that a re-map is a credible outcome.
It's more likely that if someone has had theirs re-mapped then I may be able to work out what changes they have made (and that they have actually changed it!) before we replicate it to all the 1.9 16v engines on here.
I've always been suspicious about re-maps though - I wonder how much testing they do, or whether they do just add a bit to every number in there. Hopefully we can find out.
Often a way to overcome certain changes, like switching off EGR and DPF is by fooling the system to thinking that everything is normal by falsifying sensor data.
We do know however that with later EGR systems like on the Croma that the ECU does not directly measure EGR flow but calculates equivalent EGR flow by monitoring the main airflow data. We also know that the calculation must be basically a simple approximation. We can conclude this because 1) if you block EGR then it still takes a while for the ECU to throw a wobbly and 2) the official restrictor plates have a much reduced surface area and thus EGR flow.
So an external EGR solution would be to leave the EGR valve in place but keep it shut. Then tap into to EGR connector/cable to monitor the EGR open/close signal. Next tap into the airflow sensor signal. When EGR is open reduce the airflow signal x%. Now the only problem with approach is that the ECU most probably does a corresponding fuelling level compensation change. However for the same era 8V diesel engines people can block off EGR and never seem to have any issues.
For DPF all the ECU is doing is monitoring differential pressure across DPF on early versions and absolute pressure on later versions. Pressure is zero when ignition is on and engine not running and then some positive value during running. The more the DPF gets clogged the higher the pressure and at some point the ECU will initiate the regen cycle.
With modern PIC development boards, or Arduino or similar then actually faking the signals as above is very doable. Also being programmable then one can easily adapt parameters till you get everything just right.
One overall nice feature of what is effectively an external tuning box is that you don't have to mess with the ECU.
As always insurance and disclosure is where one can come seriously unstuck. Insurance companies can and do check for ECU & other mods if they have reason to believe it is in their interests to do so. My insurance company will not insure me for ANY ECU code changes even though mapping out EGR increases reliability, nobbling DPF saves tons of fuel and neither give a boost in BHP or torque.
However I could probably get my insurance company to accept a "fuel saving device" that plugs into existing cables and does not require and ECU changes.
All food for thought
We do know however that with later EGR systems like on the Croma that the ECU does not directly measure EGR flow but calculates equivalent EGR flow by monitoring the main airflow data. We also know that the calculation must be basically a simple approximation. We can conclude this because 1) if you block EGR then it still takes a while for the ECU to throw a wobbly and 2) the official restrictor plates have a much reduced surface area and thus EGR flow.
So an external EGR solution would be to leave the EGR valve in place but keep it shut. Then tap into to EGR connector/cable to monitor the EGR open/close signal. Next tap into the airflow sensor signal. When EGR is open reduce the airflow signal x%. Now the only problem with approach is that the ECU most probably does a corresponding fuelling level compensation change. However for the same era 8V diesel engines people can block off EGR and never seem to have any issues.
For DPF all the ECU is doing is monitoring differential pressure across DPF on early versions and absolute pressure on later versions. Pressure is zero when ignition is on and engine not running and then some positive value during running. The more the DPF gets clogged the higher the pressure and at some point the ECU will initiate the regen cycle.
With modern PIC development boards, or Arduino or similar then actually faking the signals as above is very doable. Also being programmable then one can easily adapt parameters till you get everything just right.
One overall nice feature of what is effectively an external tuning box is that you don't have to mess with the ECU.
As always insurance and disclosure is where one can come seriously unstuck. Insurance companies can and do check for ECU & other mods if they have reason to believe it is in their interests to do so. My insurance company will not insure me for ANY ECU code changes even though mapping out EGR increases reliability, nobbling DPF saves tons of fuel and neither give a boost in BHP or torque.
However I could probably get my insurance company to accept a "fuel saving device" that plugs into existing cables and does not require and ECU changes.
All food for thought
I do like the sound of making an Arduino box that pretends to be a healthy DPF and EGR.
Then carve out the innards of the DPF and block the EGR valve. It might then run nicely.
I wonder if the car makers are compelled to make these things difficult to remove? Are they required by EU law to make the ECU check for their presence? Or is it just a case of them knowing that they're a good future earner for parts.
Then carve out the innards of the DPF and block the EGR valve. It might then run nicely.
I wonder if the car makers are compelled to make these things difficult to remove? Are they required by EU law to make the ECU check for their presence? Or is it just a case of them knowing that they're a good future earner for parts.
