I wanted to add a lower front strut brace to a previous car as it had a big, heavy engine and it was flexing way too much. I'm no racing driver, but appreciate tidy handling. Mine was the "posh" model in the range, and the part I wanted to fit was an OEM part that is fitted to the "sporty" model as standard. It has no detrimental effect on handling, just stops the body flexing.

The premium hike was huge so I didn't bother. They boil all mods down into one or another category. In my case they said it was a suspension mod so would be counted the same as lowering and stiffening. I attempted to argue that it wouldn't make the car faster, but he said that they see it as a risk that I obviously felt the need to go fast round corners.

I wonder whether a DPF mod would tick the same "exhaust" box as a pimped up megaloud replacement exhaust and hike the premium accordingly.

Well I just asked my current insurers (Chaucer Direct) and AXA about insuring a Croma with the DPF removed and the associated ECU map changed and both said they would NOT insure the car (or any car that was not standard engineering build). Towbars, optional/OEM alloy wheel upgrades etc. were still OK.

Looking on the Alfa forum people are getting a 20% minimum premium hike for this mod.

Sadly I don't do the daily miles/duration drives that help to keep a DPF happy and healthy and despite my annual 3000 mile (400-500 mile per day) trips to Italy I'm getting quite nervous about the DPF throwing a wobbly, probably at the same time as the exhust system requires reaplcing (car is now 56k miles and 6 years old).

With higher UK diesel fuel costs, reduce mileage and associated potential DPF problems and a 20%+ increase in insurance premium for DPF mods is making, for me, a modern diesel engined car an expensive item/risk/liability.

What really pisses me off is that since 2005/2006 low ash/soot/sulpher diesel fuel availability have increased and improved massively thus significanlty reducing the need for DPF. So DPF (which reduces MPG and thus increase polution) is becoming more of a burden and thus fuels (excuse the pun) the petrol heads/desireability.

For me it is looking very likely that modern diesel is not an option.

What would / will I miss about a diesel engined car?

The used engine oil. Seriously it is the best fence and shed treatment fluid you can get. PERIOD. Soaks in exceptionally well. After a few days is dry and clean to surface touch. Gives a lovely deep dark tan finish and actually shows and higlights the wood grain and patterns. Above all is one of the classic and most cost effective recycle/reuse items you have at your personal disposal. ZERO POUND PER LITRE! Also any graffiti on a used diesel, even petrol, oil treated fence is easily cleaned.

That confirms my suspicion about exhaust/ECU mods and insurers, and probably explains why many don't bother telling them and cross their fingers. I guess they're unlikely to notice if they ever need to look at it (e.g. a claim), whereas lowering, spoilers etc would be obvious and would probably mean they'd refuse cover (followed by a conviction for driving without insurance).

Ours is mainly used for short-ish journeys - about a 20 min gentle drive on mainly motorway in 6th gear. However, when the exhaust flexi was leaking we could, for the first time, actually tell when it was doing it - due to the puff of stinking smoke out of the front wheel arches.

Ours seems to work fine even with short journeys. I've also had a look at the blockage and regen times a few times using fiatecuscan and all seems to be well.

So I used to worry about it, but I think it's safe (for us anyway) to forget about it and leave it to do its thing.

I did read about used engine oil and fences years ago. I think it's normally mixed with creosote to enrich it. It'll certainly preserve it, but I'd worry about my fruit trees and veggies that are surrounded by fencing. I find the modern water-based stuff works surprisingly well.

Doofer said:

I did read about used engine oil and fences years ago. I think it's normally mixed with creosote to enrich it. It'll certainly preserve it, but I'd worry about my fruit trees and veggies that are surrounded by fencing. I find the modern water-based stuff works surprisingly well.

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IMHO nothing to worry about. Unless you go mad, over paint and spill loads of oil all over the place then the wood sucks the oil in and retains it. Weather/water just glides off and does not drag absorbed oil with it.

The old mixing of creoste (a dark tan fluid) would give old petrol engine oil the "deeper" staining colour people desrired. Used diesel oil has all the deep colour one could want.

Nick

I love how this forum drifts from one topic to another!

I'd say it must end up in the soil, otherwise it would last for ever. Perhaps a percentage of the oil evaporates or breaks down, but some oil and the particulate gunk must eventually wash down into the soil. Whether it does any harm is another matter, but I'd prefer not to eat it.

Doofer said:

the particulate gunk must eventually wash down into the soil.

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particulates from combustion are airbourne and cannot be washed away, this makes it a potential hazard for anyone working on diesels exhausts/EGR circuits?

Any particles can be carried by water. Exhaust particulates are fine enough to be carried by air too - that doesn't mean that water can't carry them.

I'd guess it's pretty static by the time it's accumulated within the engine, especially when stuck together with oily stuff. The risk is when it's projected into the air from an exhaust.

Doofer said:

Any particles can be carried by water. Exhaust particulates are fine enough to be carried by air too

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yes thanks you put that much better (and clearer) than I did.

Hello guys. I've recently bought Fiat Croma 1.9 mjet (2nd hand). I've contacted a person who is a former engeneer in the licensed FIAT representative for my country. He was kind enough to check the car with original software and informed me that the DPF is emptied ( i dont know if thats the right way to describe that the DPF is a simple empty pipe now ). The guy didnt inform me however if the car software is modded to turn the DPF off. I've read some materials about DPF and the way its working but I still have some questions and I will be very thankfull if you explain me the details.

What will happen if the DPF is emptied but its not disabled in the software ?
I've read about some ... post fuel injection (exactly before the exhaust valves close) - does the software removeal of DPF also remove the post fuel injection I am mentioning ? In other words can someone explain the details of the software removal of the DPF and how is it affecting the car.

Thanks in advance.
Best regards.

If your car is the 8V 1.9MJet Croma then it will not have a DPF. To my knowledge only the 16V models had DPFs.

If the DPF is removed or emptied then the DPF pressure sensor will not have the right pressure values and is almost certain to throw a fault. The only way to avoid this is to:

1) have the ECU reprogrammed to remove the DPF function
2) simulate / fake the sensor reading

If the ECU has been *correctly* reporgrammed then the ECU will not wan't or have any need to do a regeneration because as far as it it concerned there is no DPF (like on the 8V croma which uses the same ECU)

If a fake/simulate has been deployed then anything could or could not happen. Best case would be the ECU never sees a reason to regenerate. Or if the fake signal is not ideal then the ECU will always wan't to regenerate and your fuel consumption will go through the roof

If you find/think your car is often regenerating (you will feel the heat coming out from under the car, hot/fishy smell, blazing hot exhaust gases) then you should keep an eye on your oil level to ensure you are not suffering from oil dilution and raised oil level.

i ran mine empty for a while before getting ecu updated, no errors but as car was still trying to do regens it resulted in clouds of blue smoke coming out the back every day

dave said:

i ran mine empty for a while before getting ecu updated, no errors but as car was still trying to do regens it resulted in clouds of blue smoke coming out the back every day

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Interesting Dave

I wonder. Did you remove the DPF innards after it failed to regenerate? In this case then the ECU may have had the regen flag set and thus be wanting to regen, and also seeing no change in back pressure it kept on trying to regenerate.

This begs the question as to if the DPF is gutted just after a normal regen then a regen will never happen again *AND* the ECU is happy with a constant non rising DPF pressure signal. If so then and ECU remap may not be required and thus no insurance implications

I've mentioned before somewhere that I wondered if my DPF is slow falling apart as I often see smoke on startup, typical non DPF diesel smell, and regen cycles seem to be further apart and shorter.

I only really look a DPF data every service/oil change so haven't really got accurate timeline DPF data (miles between regens/time to regen/regen temperature) to definitively conclude anything.

the guy who mapped it said it still needs the sensor in place even with dpf delete

im not in here too often but there was a guy in alfaforum who was making dongles to reset dpf and egr codes so could be mechanically blanked and cored.
he developed to be a cheap way around it
here was a review
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...d-egr-removal-no-remap-dongle-5-000-mile.html
here is a link to(I think his) yahoo site
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DieselDPF/info
based on 1.9 but may be able to mod code for others
here was original thread
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-and-946-spider/355534-dpf-quick-fixes.html
hes no longer on alfaforum, so search if that yahoo site doesn't find him

s130 said:

If your car is the 8V 1.9MJet Croma then it will not have a DPF. To my knowledge only the 16V models had DPFs.

Click to expand...

I'm fairly sure my 8v mjet has a DPF. Certainly when I had all my egr problems years ago the main dealer charged me plenty to clean it out and do forced regens. Mind you, they also charged me plenty for oil changes because the computer would say 95% just after the previous oil change......

Well I also originally thought that the 8V Cromas had DPFs fitted as well. But I was later led to believe that as far as the UK was concerned the DPFs were only fitted to the 16V models as the early starter/development platform for Euro 5 requirements which Fiat were never intending to you the 8V engines for. Only the 16V were destined to be Euro 5 compliant. Meanwhile all Cromas 8V/16V,no DPF or DPF were all only homologated to meet Euro 4.

If you PM me your Corma Model Number and 8 digit chassis number I will be able to confirm if it has DPF. If it does then this will certainly clarify a lot of confusion.

BrianMcL said:

Mind you, they also charged me plenty for oil changes because the computer would say 95% just after the previous oil change......

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You need to complain to the garage. The 95% "oil depletion" is only 5% used. I don't know if it was a bad translation but the oil quality figure runs backward to what you would expect, 100% "depleted" is new oil, 0% is old. Even if it was a while ago they are still responsible. I wonder if it was a genuine mistake or they were pulling a fast one.

B.T.W running a car on the road with a cored DPF is illegal. It is an offence under the Road vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations (Regulation 61a(3))1
"to use a vehicle which has been modified in such a way that it no longer complies with the air pollutant emissions standards it was designed to
meet."
While the MOT is only visual inspection and may not pick it up, the offence still exists. If the MOT tester knows it's been deleted and gives you an MOT anyway they could loose their test approval. see https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter.

Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

B.T.W running a car on the road with a cored DPF is illegal. It is an offence under the Road vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations (Regulation 61a(3))1
"to use a vehicle which has been modified in such a way that it no longer complies with the air pollutant emissions standards it was designed to
meet."
While the MOT is only visual inspection and may not pick it up, the offence still exists. If the MOT tester knows it's been deleted and gives you an MOT anyway they could loose their test approval. see https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter.

Robert G8RPI.

Click to expand...

The Croma was fully homolated, tested, sold and bought as a Euro IV Emissions Compliant Vehicle. It was NOT homolgated to Euro V which WOULD require a DPF. So the Croma complies with the Road Traffic with OR without the DPF filter.

I'm afraid we have the politicians messing with stuff without thinking.
We now have an MOT test system which is out of line with Road Traffic Act and EU/UK legal vehicle emmissions homologation status.

I contacted VOSA several time in the past re: this and each time told they will get the right person to contact me and nothing happens. I suspect nothing happens cos they know the system is stuffed and do'nt know what to say.

Hi,
Understood that the 1.9 16V diesel Croma was homologated to Euro IV, but the C&U regs say "designed to meet". As the Croma engine was a "dry run" for Euro V, the DPF was designed into the system. In anycase if you change the emission control system you do in theory have to prove it meets the emisssion specifications i.e. a SVA or IVA inspection. This is not practical or cost effective. I'm not saying the law is "good" but just want people to know the implications. There is also the insurance paradox. If you don't tell your insurance company of the modification and they find out, you could be uninsured. If you do tell them, and they know about the law, they won't insure you anyway (but at least the driving while uninsured won't be such a surprise). I don't think there is doubt about the rule. I'm not a lawer, but am a professional engineer and interpret the applicability this type of legislation as part of my job.

Robert G8RPI.

Quick update.
Since 2018 the UK MOT includes a check for deletion or tampering with emissions equipment so removing DPF is an MOT failure.