Hi folks,

About 9 months ago I posted saying my power steering was going really heavy for a few seconds now and again. At the time my local independent garage diagnosed it as the steering rack so I set about getting a replacement - Fiat wanted silly money so after some research, I concluded the Vectra-C rack of the same year for the 1.9 CDTi 8v 120bhp model was the same, made by TRW. I found that ACS Power Steering reconditioned these racks for the Vectra and they were willing to supply one on a core exchange basis for my Croma ('55 1.9 Dynamic 120bhp 8v diesel manual), cost was £127 delivered.

Following fitment (Vectra rack was identical and bolted up just the same), I found my power steering wasn't having the 'heavy' episodes anymore but had now developed a clunking noise so took it straight back to the garage who said it was the recon'd rack I'd supplied and I'd have to get another one. There was some back and forward with ACS telling the garage to 'try this' to get rid of the noise and the garage taking the hump but in the end ACS agreed to recon my original rack and send it back to be swapped over again. Sure enough no more noise after that and no more 'heavy' episodes. I just got stung for double labour by the garage

Fast forward to now and my mrs. phoned me one day to say her car wouldn't turn at all - steering was really heavy all of the time. Sure enough I tried it and it's like there's no power assistance at all now. You need to be Arnie to turn corners and drive it in general! Have spoken with a few places including a garage and ACS and the consensus is the power steering pump is knackered as haven't had any fluid leaks and not getting any groans or other noises from the steering - any opinions? Fluid was replaced when the rack was changed and all has been well this past 9 months.

I know the alternator has been mentioned on here as a possible cause of PS issues but I'm thinking I'd have other electrical issues? Everything else is working fine, no lights on the dash etc. (touch wood!)

I've been searching today and cannot source a Croma specific pump anywhere - brand new or otherwise. I know I could go to Fiat but I know the price will be stupid given the rack was £1k odd from them. ACS don't recon the Vectra C one (part looks the same again, made by TRW) - only sell new ones for £325. Can find some other suppliers for a new Vectra C one, all around £300, and nowhere that recons them. ACS were worried although the part may physically fit, the calibration or electronics may be different for the Croma.

I'm tempted to go for used Vectra C one given it may not be compatible - there are a few around £90 on ebay / gumtree and suppliers offering same with warranty through partsgateway for around £160 delivered.

Any thoughts, advice, words of wisdom? Has anybody else had to replace their power steering pump and if so, what route did they take?

Cheers,

Brian.

physically the pump is the same, I don't know about software differences, I would try the used vec c as the labour to replace shouldn't be to high but you can find the croma ones on italian ebay for around 300-400 eur new. Your best bet would be to contact TRW directly they will know if there are differences between the two and go with the cheaper option.

http://cgi.ebay.it/POMPA-ELETTRICA-...968?pt=Ricambi_automobili&hash=item484053f388

Personally I would invest in FiatECUScan. With hardware and cables you can diagnose most Croma faults including power steering system. Before I replace a component, especially one with computer/diagnostics functions then I want to know exectly what the fault is other than it is broken.

Also when a steering rack in a Croma is replaced there is a calibration proceedure that is supposed to be done to properly intergrate the new rack into the cars other systems. Yes the rack communicates info to the ABS, EBS and ASR system and probably body computer as well.

i initially had the intermittant power steering problem and charging my battery usually cured it for about 4 months. However this was soon followed by the complete failure of my pump (including warning caption on dash). I connected FIATECUSCAN and tried to check the status of the pump but could get no connection to the ecu (situated on the pump assembly- compact version).

With this i took it to a dealer for some basic diagnostics. The dealer told me they cleaned the pump connections and checked the voltage to the pump. They then recommended a power cable replacement from the battery to the pump assembly (as per FIAT Technical bulletin) cost £170 . I decided to decline their offer as cleaning the connections appeared to have cured my problem and i could now connect to the ecu and read the stored parameters.

Some 6 months later i still have a working power steering, and can read the following parameters from the EHPS ecu:
Engine running vehicle stationary..

Battery Voltage: 13.5 V
Turning speed: 0.0000 deg./sec.
Vehicle speed (from CAN): 0.0 km/h
Pump motor current: 7.010 A
Max pump motor current: 94.052 A
Pump motor speed (target): 2,500.0 rpm
Pump motor speed (measured): 2,499.6 rpm
Key signal: ON
ECU overheat protection: OFF
High voltage protection: OFF
Low voltage protection: OFF
Final stage overheat protection: OFF
Final stage overcurrent protection: OFF

Where within FES did you connect to steering, is it under main components TRW steering? I remember seeing something like that but didn't go into detail. Corrosion on the end of wire is common and will cause problems, no need to replace it just clean unless it actually ate through the wiring, so good choice.

Selection for the Power steering ecu is TRW steering selection in FES. However you need to connect pin 7 to pin 12 in your obd connector (mine is an ELM327 1.4 with pins 1-7-12 linked together).

Can confirm that with the Croma 2005 the Power Steering, HID Headlamps and some other stuff is on Pin 12.

Last year it happened with my Croma that the steering went heavy a few times, when driving slow and making a 90 degree turn.

This year, once we started using the climate control at "full auto", it happened frequently and the climate control didn't work.

The condenser leaked, which I replaced and had the system filled up again.
From that moment the power steering worked faultlessly again.

Had the climate control drawn to much electrical power?

Interesting info/observation Crombel

I'm beginning to think that all these modern car electrical systems are the cause (interlinked) of so many issues.

I'm thinking heavy eletrical demand = battery & alternator demand
Older / weaker battery (which naturally happens) = even more demand
Followed by alternator failure
Wiring resistances = more voltage drop to (say) power steering than climate control when climate control is on full blast.

Electrically it would be difficult in a modern car to star point every connection off a single point so there is/will be some shared distribution circuits and this can only add to the potential problems other systems see when one system calls for max power.

Remember the old blinking indicator causing the brake or side lights to dim in sympathy. Here we are talking a couple of amps....... I bet the power sterring, aircon etc. take 10, 20 or more amps on fully demand.

Since I have a built in voltmeter I have observed dropping voltage in the running car in neutral from 14V to 13V just from turning the wheel to full lock, will try with AC on full blast to see if additional drain occurs. I guess I was wise to get a new stronger battery before the old one was bad just to be safe. Also I cured the PS stiffness on one side with fresh fluid as described in my DIY topic (old one was BLACK!!!). Everyone should check the condition of PS fluid (color and smell). It should be green and smell chemically but not burnt.

Thanks for the info / suggestions folks. I have a Vectra-C pump on the way which was £80 odd delivered via ebay.

I do have a licensed version of Fiat ECUScan with an ELM v1.4 cable - used it to successfully reset the service indicator after an independent garage service. I had thought it's pretty conclusive that the pump is gubbed as there is no assistance at all anymore, like driving a tank. No warning lights though.

Will give hooking up to the diagnostics port a go again, so I need to open the ELM v1.4 and join pins 1-7-12 somehow? Would thin electrical wire do the job or do I need to solder? I'll see if I get any info or have the ability to run through calibration. Shouldn't be an issue as such given it's our original rack that's back on it after having been reconditioned.

Cheers,

Brian.

Instead of messing with your ELM device/cable I would recommend these:

http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_FESCBL.html

Professional and best solution IMHO. (I've done the DIP switch mods to my KKL and ELM cables but wish they had these cables when I originally bought my kit. I also suggested to Gendan that they produce a patch cable kit and they have!)

Thanks for the link s130 - those look a good solution but as it's not something I'm likely to need often I'd rather do it the cheap way for now.

Sounds like I need to open the end of the connector and solder pins together? Or can I do it temporarily with thin electrical wire?

www.fiatecuscan.net has an explanation of the modification necessary on the pins but the site seems to be down @ this time so I can't find the exact page. You need thin wire mini dip switch and soldering skills.

tDR said:

Thanks for the link s130 - those look a good solution but as it's not something I'm likely to need often I'd rather do it the cheap way for now.

Sounds like I need to open the end of the connector and solder pins together? Or can I do it temporarily with thin electrical wire?

Click to expand...

I used electrical equipment wire about 28AWG size

Modified ELM327 Interface

see attached photos

https://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/showfull.php?photo=80095

https://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/showfull.php?photo=80096

Pauld

With the AC full blast and steering in full lock in neutral the running voltage of 14.2 drops to app. 12.5V, quite a heavy load the two systems put on the car I would say.

Update on this - took the car to my local independent garage over a week ago along with a Vectra-C pump I'd bought from a breaker (as mentioned earlier). They removed my pump and compared and the Vectra-C one looked the same shape but the electrical connectors on top were black rather than blue and the one 3rd from the left (looking at the pump top-down with connectors at the bottom) didn't have pins in it - my Croma pump has pins in all 4x electrical connectors.

So the garage said it wouldn't work and I set to the task of sourcing a pump again. None of the breakers could find a Vectra-C pump that had all pins populated and upon speaking to Western Power Steering (found them on web as being able to recondition electro-hydraulic power steering systems), they said the electronics in the Vectra-C pump wouldn't talk to the Croma PS ECU so I couldn't use one of their new Vectra-C pumps they ship in from abroad (can't refurb the Vectra-C or Croma ones).

I then contacted TRW UK who said I'd need to contact a distributor near me - they gave me contact details for Dingbro (UK wide I think) in Falkirk so I called them saying I was trade and even gave them the TRW part number from the TRW aftermarket website (JER134 which superceeded JER136 BTW, only Croma it doesn't do is the 2.2 petrol). They went to investigate supplying and got back to me, said they couldn't find that part but one of their suppliers suggested another one which should fit... that turned out to be the wrong part completely so took mine into them as they said they had somewhere that could likely refurb it or they'd now found the correct part which would be £502 inc. VAT. - I went for the refurb option so mine got sent away and now they've phoned to say it cannot be repaired and do I want to go ahead with the new part

I also phoned Fiat along the way - they want £745 inc. VAT

So now I'm sat on Italian ebay contacting sellers on there to see how much for one shipped to the UK - this is the cheapest listing I've found:

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/POMPA-ELETTRICA-TRW-ELETTROPOMPA-FIAT-CROMA-05-ORIG-/250748090531#shId

Which is 399 Euros + shipping = ~ £360 + shipping.

All in all, a ridiculous situation to be in and a rip-off price from Fiat UK

Just bought one from that ebay Italy seller - 450 EUR shipped via TNT. Paid with paypal and it showed the conversion amount as £410.

Ouch.