Hello guys, long time since ive been on here,due to my log in being inop.Ive recently bought a croma 2.4mjet,6speed switchable auto for the boss in doors.My beloved jtd stilo has been retired and ive parked it up as i cant bear to part with it,5 years of nearly trouble free motoring apart from a crap remap.
My query if anyone can help is,is the assin 6speed auto a good box,are they noisey?mine seems to be very noisey under low loads/low engine speed-high road speed and when coasting.To me it sounds like a worn crown wheel on a backwheel drive vehicle.But that is if its the box,it may be something else.The dealer reckons its fine.Anyone got any good ideas,alot of clever people on this forum.I thought of taking an oil sample,which is what i,d do in my job?

No it's generally a well renowned gearbox - probably the best part of the car.

Mine is not at all noisy - are you sure it's the box?

Radlet6 said:

... a well renowned gearbox - probably the best part of the car ...

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Many snows since I had a FIAT auto, & way outside my knowledge – but I think this is same Aisin TF-80SC unit fitted in Mazda 6, Alfa 159, Saab, Volvo etc etc, so you can also look outside of FIAT/Alfa envelope re probs/solutions.

Google [TF-80SC] or [AWTF-80SC]

Example: http://www.automaticchoice.com/Catalogue/aw_tf80sc.pdf

Thanks for replying.That is what everyone says,the box is common to alot of other makes.No reported faults on their forums.(Assin aw tf 55)Im not 100% sure it is the box but sounds over in that direction.The whine can be produced or not produced by the throttle pedal action.It sometimes wont make the noise for a while then it will start, say on the same journey but coming home.Were would you start with it?I could only think of an oil sample as we would with the industrial engines,might show something up.Other than that it changes gear perfect.Could it be a drive shaft,or a wheel bearing?

Im sorry it is a tf 80 sc,im corrected.

I have to agree it certanily sounds like the diff - probably a wayward bearing.

Please could you give some more detail, such as:-

Age of car
Mileage of car
Which gears are affected
What speed range is the noise most noticeable in?

There are a couple of scenarios in which the gearbox on mine makes a noise but the fact that you say the car makes a noise when 'coasting' puzzles me; this could mean transfer gears rather than crownwheel, driveshaft intermediate bearing (although they rarely whine) or wheel bearing (ditto). Diff bearings generally 'growl' or 'fizz' rather than whine.

Have you checked the oil level? Also, do you know if the oil has ever been changed - the reason I ask is that on the early models, they made the level tube too short, so that you actually need to fill the gearbox with a further 0.7 litres of oil once the level tube indicates full.

If the oil has been changed, there is also the possibility that some well-meaning person has used standard ATF rather than the synthetic stuff specified for these gearboxes. If you do have gearbox problems, good luck getting a spare - they're not the same as the ones fitted to the 1.9

More to the point, good luck getting the old one out - it's quite a lump

Firstly a big thankyou to everyone for replying.The story with this car is-
I bought it from an authorised dealer,full history,i then got in touch with the supplying dealer from new to enquire about its history.They were most helpfull,in its life it has had front springs,EGR actuator,some flash programmes,discs and pads,etc all mediocre items.The car has just covered 39k and is a 2006 model.The dealer fitted a timing belt,water pump and idlers as part of the deal,but i paid for the parts to show my gratetude,with so they tell me not removing the engine.
I road tested it,and on return when pulling of a rounderbout in say 3rd on a light throttle opening i got this whine,which disapeared once the revs rose abit,say 300 rpm.I pointed this out,the sales guy said it was nothing.I went ahead and bought it,the soundtrack,power,and torque was to much to resist.I still do not regret it,what ever it needs it will have,im in love with it.
At present the fault can be described as a whine,as though that particular gear at that present time is a touch to high for the engine speed,as soon as it changes down the whine disapears,or if you stick your boot down abit.Is it normal then?(says he with crossed fingers)

I don't have an Automatic 2.4 Croma so can not offer much/any auto gearbox experience.

What I would say is that before purchasing and during test drive you noted and pointed out the noise. The salesperson said it was 'nothing' and not "I can't hear what you are talking about". This would suggest to me that he heard exactly what you heard.

This noise may not be a problem but given the above I would raise this again with the garage/dealer and stress the point that if there is a problem or breakdown with the box in the future then you expect them to fix it free of charge. I would put this in writing, ask for a response and then file the paperwork hoping you never need it. By giving you a written response they will actually be doing themselves good in your eyes, instilling a little cusotmer faith, and at the same giving you a future point of reference should you ever experience a problem.

Meanwhile "enjoy the beast". All Fiats have a heart of gold. They all beg to be driven, enjoyed and even thrashed like no other engine (IMHO).

Gearboxes and drive chains can be very funny things. I can spot a noise in an instant then go into mental overdriver analysing said noise. Eventually in many cases I just end up accepting the noise unusual and nothing to worry about.

On my Croma 1.9 I have a 'clacking' gearbox. I'm told it is normal because of the 3-shaft designs are more noiser than 2 shaft boxes. I'm not convinced but my questions etc. are logged on the dealers service record for my car.

Our Strada Abarth sounded like a tractor from day one with the box in neutral. I was very concerned. 21+ years and 82K miles later it still sounds like a tractor.

s130 thanks for the replie,i think along the same lines as your good self.I put this little issue to bed in my head shortly after i bought it.I never drive it usually,but did last week for the 1st time in along time,and it reoccured in my head.The dealer have accepted my claim,and i forgot to add,i have had it back for the noise.But being a bit soft i let the manager drive it,he then procedded to thrash the arse of it,in which case it didnt make the noise which it doesnt with higher engine speeds,he was more interested in the power as he said "im only used to TDCI mondeos" which i replied "please dont waste my time trying to do a comparison"I then managed to track down the original owner.I quizzed him about this problem.He replied with,yes it does feel agricultural around town or low speeds but shapes up on motorways.Still uneasy about it.Interested in the oil situation now as mentioned here.
many thanks,sorry about being a bit long winded.

nothing to be sorry about posting what to you may be a silly issue, long winded etc.

Simply posting any query, no matter how trivial, is how we all learn. If not a new learning item then our long lost memories/experienceknowledge is reignited ready for the next person asking questions.

I'm quite fussy about noises from the gearbox, I spent a long time living with gearbox problems on my last car. Removing the automatic gearbox from a Sharan VR6 stops being fun the third time...anyway, my (car's) gearbox noises have remained fairly constant over the past 58K (now just over 71K) and here's a summary:-

Second / third gear - slight whine on light accel / decel

Fourth / fifth gear - rumble / whine when pootling at 43-47 mph (this feels more like an engine-induced noise, as if the uneven vibration is setting up a slight resonance). No noise above 50mph.

Sixth gear - slight whine when car speed drops below 65mph, especially noticeable if the car holds on to 6th and the speed drops to 60 or below (at this point I usually manually change down to 5th as the revs are too low for any kind of performance and this kind of driving tends to clog the DPF). No whine at 65mph+.

None of the above are audible (well, maybe 4th / 5th) with the stereo set playing a CD at volume 10-12ish.

'Agricultural' is about right, depending what you're used to I suppose. In some ways the car is more refined than my father-in-law's old 1.9 DCi Scenic, in some ways it's worse. It has 'character', but unless you have a direct comparison with another identical car then it's hard to know exactly how much 'character' there should be

Oh, and about getting a replacement gearbox - it would seem that while the core of the gearbox is common to the 1.9 and 2.4, the part numbers are different, suggesting a 1.9 unit might possibly fit if some external parts were swapped around. Bit of a gamble at £1500+ for a secondhand box

That describes it the best,that is basically how mine is.Perhaps it is just down to the high gearbox ratios.Must admit the noise has got no worse.Something else i find strange is,we tow a caravan which wieghs 1350kg so not really that big in the caravan world and well within the specification of the car.Considering the size and power of the Croma with the 2.4 fitted,mine can spot a hill 10miles away,slightest incline and its changing down the box when really its got the torque to fly up the hill.My Stilo with the 1.9 115 fitted and admittedly with a steinbauer p box on since new would hang right on to top gear all the way and its got no where near as much torque as the 2.4.
Cheers for the help. seth

I'm with you in that respect, towing our caravan which weighs somewhere between 1300 and 1400g the ratios are not that good, I've posted this on here before somewhere. The torque comes in too high up the revs so the car 'bogs down'. My father-in-law has a 2002 BMW 530D with supposedly less power and torque than the Croma but it makes a much better towcar, down to the fact that the torque comes in from more or less idle speed.

For overtaking, the Croma will stay with it and even pull away slightly due to the power coming in higher up the rev range. I reckon the DPF and emissions kit fitted to the Croma don't help, although in its defence it doesn't leave a cloaking device behind it every time you hoof it

I have often thought that the gear ratios are programmed for European speed limits and not ours e.g. 3rd to 4th at 70 kph (42mph) and 5th to 6th at 120kph (75mph).

I was talking to Matt at Steinbauer about exactly this.The power being to far up the rev range to be usefull with a "van" in tow.Now that i think the gearbox noises are sort of normal,i may go down the route of another "p" box for this car,Matt reckons he can map the box for bottom end torque.Really speaking though it shouldnt require it.I can see the Stilo getting "unretired" poor thing!

My 2.4 does not make any ominous sounds. It does change down when the road inclination varies, either up or down. If about 40 mph light throttle it will change down to 3rd on a slight climb, and downhill about 40 mph off throttle it wil also change down to give engine braking. This seems like a function measuring the inclination, not power. It is also possible to hang on to the gear with a little more throttle.

I drive mostly on local roads between 1500 and 2500 rpm, and usually average corrected mpg around 40. I get a regen about every 400 miles.

Buster, if you have a P box you could try it on the croma. I could be wrong, but I thought the P box altered the fuel pulses, and is adjustable, possibly by turning control knobs. The DPF needs a lot more than that. As you are in cheshire it could be useful to contact Gus at Alfatune in St Helens, he has sorted out a lot of 2.4 problems with remaps and DPF, particularly with the 159 and Brera.

Thanks Kieth,i might get in touch with them,ive heard of them but didnt realise they were so close.Have you had yours played with?

buster said:

Thanks Kieth,i might get in touch with them,ive heard of them but didnt realise they were so close.

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Alfatune

Map in the "Contact" section of their website.

Buster, I have considered, but at 77 and doing less than 5000 miles a year almost all on local roads, the improvement would not be justified. Or would it?