Technical Where do I put axle stands?

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Technical Where do I put axle stands?

Doofer

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I'm building up to the oil change (never done it before myself). These are hopefully idiot questions.

I've got two shiny new axle stands, have never used any before. I need to raise the front of the car. Where's the best place to put them? Presumably they can't go in the jacking points, as I'll be using them to raise it.

I only have the standard freebie jack. Is it safe to jack one corner, put a stand under that one, then jack the other? i.e. wiggle it upwards, one side then the other. Or do I need to get a trolley jack to lift the entire front end, then put both axle stands under the two sides. In which case, where does the trolley jack go?

The driveway is tarmac, which is pretty firm, but will dent under pressure. I've always used a lump of 4x2 under the jack, I was also going to use some lengths of 1x6 plank under the stands (probably two planks under each, side by side).

Thanks all.
 
Hi Doofer

Personally I would invest in a set of ramps or alternatively make ramps from steps 6 by 2 wood blocks that you overlay stack and then drive up.

Unless removing wheels to gain specific access then the car is always safer on its own wheels.

Shuffle jacking from side-to-side can be done but with only one jack you have to rely on the axle stand to support the other side.

I'd have to look at the underside of the Croma again, but I think the only safe place to place an axle stand is under the larger of the lower suspension track control arm inner mounting points. Would suggest a rubber or wooded block between the stand and the car as metal-on-metal has a habit of sliding and of course damaging paint/plating.

I've posted elsewhere on Croma oil change (1.9 not 2.4) see https://www.fiatforum.com/croma/231322-croma-diy-servicing.html

If this is your 1st time around on an oil change then here are some tips that may be of use:

1) Do oil change with engine warm but not hot. Go for a drive till the temp. guage gets off the bottom end. Feel the sump metal with your hand pressed hard. If you can tolerate the heat without removing your hand then the oil be a effectively a little hotter!

2) Be prepared for possible difficult sump plug removal

3) Ensure you have plenty of sheets/mats covering the ground around all sides of the collecting oil pan. Trust me! Unless you have a height adustable oil collection unit then despite your best attempts at controlling the flow and direction it is a messy business. Worst part is when you have guided/confined the oil, possibly with your hand into the catch tray one is then left with a forever slow trickle of oil that WILL get blown by any wind around the car. 2 feet in any direction is a good guide!

3A) Make sure you have rags & towels to hand mop up both yourself and the car/sump/ground etc.. Take them under the car with you before cracking the sump plug.

4) Always replace the sump washer and preferably the sump plug

5) With the Croma 1.9 16V the oil filter is rather fiddley and a bit messy. Just be prepared.

I'm sure I've missed loads of good tips BUT to be honest you will actually learn a shed load more by doing the job 1st hand. Just sit (actually lie back) and visually and mentally work through in you mind what you are going to do. For example when you get under the car you will find that say for the sump plug you need to get into a particular position to be "square on" etc. to crack the sump plug. When cracked oild could flow immediately so the oil tray should be with direct reach.

Trust me, you will learn by your mistakes. Fortunately with an oil change if it all goes wrong you spend more time cleaning up than actually doing the oil change. You also end up cursing yourself with "I knew that was going to happen"!!!!

Unlike some garages when you get oil everywhere you will clean it all up and off your car, spending time to clean out all the places on the engine/drives shafts/etc. where the oil got to.

Report back on how you get/got on. We won't laugh and say "we told you so" because we have all been there ourselves.
 
:worship: Thank you, thank you.

I've got the stands now, so was hoping to go with that option. What governs where is a safe place to put them? Something solid looking that's close to the bodyshell? Presumably as wide apart as possible is a good plan, for stability. I've got various lumps of wood around and some 3mm rubber sheeting, so protecting it isn't a problem. Hopefully I won't need to get it too high.

I'm not looking forward to the first oil change, mainly as I won't know what I'm doing, but also because I'll be fitting my quickvalve in place of the sump plug. Future changes should be a lot less hassle. In future I should be able to use a tube to put the old oil straight into an old oil bottle (height permitting), if not then at least into the pan without it going everywhere. If the oil filter was in a nicer place then I could do it without even a jack.

I've got an elearn CD, so will read that in addition to all your help here.
 
Another idea... I have a lot of bricks around the place for the walls I'm building. I could jack it high, then stack bricks under each front wheel (with a plank on top to tie them together).

Safer or more dangerous than the stands?

I'd prefer the stands though, as I won't have any spare bricks next time.
 
Don't want to be negative but would it not be a lot easier just to chuck it into Kwik Fit or one of these places that charge £25 for an oil and filter change? I wouldn't jack up one side and hope the axle stand stays in place for the other. But then, I am a *****.....(can you say ***** on here?) :eek:
 
Don't want to be negative but would it not be a lot easier just to chuck it into Kwik Fit or one of these places that charge £25 for an oil and filter change? I wouldn't jack up one side and hope the axle stand stays in place for the other. But then, I am a *****.....(can you say ***** on here?) :eek:

Yeah I know. For the last service I did everything except the oil change, which cost all of £28. I want to start changing the oil every 6 months or so, as it seems to feel the benefit of clean oil. Plus I want to know that it's had the right amount of the right oil etc.

I don't like the idea of jacking each side in turn, but at least I won't be under it at the time. I've made a couple of bases for the stands today, which are thick planks with a perimeter of wood, so they can't slide (hopefully the wood will sink into the tarmac a bit and grip onto it). I could do it in 2 or three steps at each side, so the angle won't be too much per step.

Plenty of companies make axle stands and plenty buy them, so they must be safe to use. I do like the idea of directly supporting the body, so it's firmly supported (not via the suspension).

All ideas and experience welcome...
 
A)
Get two decent 1/2 length scaffolding planks (or similar like two pairs of fence posts stapped together for each ramp) and place them atop brick piers.

B)
Build two brick ramps, overlocking and interleving the bricks. Make sure each ramp is at least two bricks wide.

Finally overlay/bind each ramp with an old towel as this will stop any particual brick wanting to jump loose.
 
If your planning on getting under a car I wouldnt dream of using the standard jack in any capacity its far too dangerous. Just buy a trolley jack from a motor factor or halfords, or if its just for oil changes some inspection ramps. Steel ramps are way better than trying to balance a really heavy car on bricks and bits of wood. Best of luck :)
 
Yep I basically agee with you. The ramps and trolley jacks were already explored.

I have ramps plus extension sections (available from Machine Mart) that help with long nosed cars.

I also use 6" x 2" blocks/planks of varying lengths, bound, that one drives up. After each 2" step the wheel is fully flat and not attempting to climb the next step. These form a far less steep ramp and one can get all four wheels raised at the same time if required.

I trust a 6" x 2" wood blocks under a tyre more than a welded ramp. Flat on the ground they support almost unlimited loads.

In most cases only 3 layers, 6" height is required. 4 layers is perfectly safe.

--|-----
--|------------
--|---------------------
--|----------------------------- where '|' = nylon webbing band

and as always never rely on a single support when getting under a car. Tyres can explode/deflate when under a car and the loss of 3 inches could be curtains for whoever is under there.

I have 4 trolley jacks, 6 axle stands but if I want to raise my car in all four corners I will use a block ramp in preference to jacking and propping even though I can jack all four corners at once.
 
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Thanks for all the responses. I've just replaced the alternator, so had it jacked up to do that (only to take the wheel off, not to go under it).

I can't see any sensible place to put the axle stands. If they had a flat top they could go where a workshop lift goes, but they have a semi-circular cutout that won't fit around anything. I'm thinking that sitting the car on the tops of the stands would be asking for trouble - the tops might snap off under that kind of stress, plus it puts the weight of the car in two very small areas of the underbody.

There's no way I'm going under the car if not 110% certain it's safe. Is there a flat pad that fits into the top of axle stands? I may just use them as not-quite-touching insurance in addition to the ramps.

Ramps sound more sensible, so I'll have a look at Machine Mart and elsewhere. I was concerned about the bumper overhang, but I guess that's what the extensions are for.

The only problem with ramps is that they're obviously no use for anything that involves taking the wheels off.
 
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It seems that ramps are no use for most cars these days.

One issue is the front bumper height / overhang (possibly can be worked around with an extension ramp)

The bigger issue is width. The widest I can find is 215mm, and the 18" wheels at least are 225mm wide. I don't want to lie under a car where the sidewalls aren't supported, especially as they are reinforced, so presumably are because they're needed for support.

I'm going to try this the next time I start messing about with it...

http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33224

Failing that, I'll angle grinder / bench grinder the tops of the stands to make them flat and stick them where a workshop lift would go (presumably the flat areas near the boxes for the scissor jack).
 
I would NOT worry about width (within reason)

You would be amazed at the true contact patch size to support a car.

Tyres are desgined to take massive point loadings (like driving over stones & raised rocks). Any ramp 50% of the width of a tyres will not be a problem.

In anycase the ramp gets the car up to height. You should still have additional safety support inplace just incase the ramp collapses!

We are all getting a little paranoid about lifting a vehicle. Just use common sense and then ensure you have a solid secondary backup support mechanism.

Another stress free and stable way to lift a car is with a properly "designed for pupose" reinforced air lift bag/jack. The beauty of these devices is that they spread the weight loading over a very large area of the car underside. The propper professional ones also don't burst as they have "rip stop" structure/material so that if punctured they can slowly deflate.
 
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