Doofer said:

... I can't remember what colour the labels are. Is the small painted spot (about 10mm) on the sidewall the same? ...

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The coloured spots are there to give some guidance to the fitter - indicate the low & high weight spots on the tyre prior to fitting on the rim. But I’m not sure if it’s common to all manufacturers. One of my rear pair has a red dot close to the valve point. Some argue that budgets are more likely to require counter-weights.

The Netherlands `DeNieuweBand’ list makes interesting reading - although perhaps of more use to Croma jockeys on 16”/17” rims, than those trapped into 225/45R18 95Y.

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55 Prestigio 1.9/16v150 (ContiSC3 225/45R18-95W, FalkenFK452 225/45R18-95Y)

I just changed Conti Sport 3s on the rear after about 13,500. They had about 3mm left but I didnt realise about the rear set-up problems so had National send them back to Continental to be examined. They were £175 each last May. Have replaced with Goodyear Eagle NCT5, still 215/50ZR17 91W I think from memory, but £150 each, again from National. Have done a laser alignment since and changed rear dampers which has vastly improved handling. Fingers crossed they dont evaporate in a year. Does anyone know what I should do about the so called recall ? Fiat didnt know anything about it when I took my car to them (Glyn Hopkin Bishops Stortford) last week, and if there is a tweak that needs to happen, then I know my 2007 Eleganza 1.9 JTD 150 needs it ?

When I first bought mine, I rang the Fiat dealer mine was bought from new, who'd also done all the servicing (I was the second owner), to ask about its recall history.

They said it had not had any recall work, and none was required. Either this is true, or the dealer couldn't be bothered to help.

I got mine fully aligned as soon as I bought it. It was done at a normal tyre-fitting place - the usual free check, pay for adjustments deal. They just used industry-standard data from their computer. It needed A LOT of adjustment at the rear. It cost £55 +VAT, but the rear tyres seem to last for ever now - they look like new after 15k miles.

I'd bet your tyre company will say the alignment was at fault, and Fiat will say it's out of warranty (and you bought it used). So it's probably just an expensive lesson learnt unfortunately.

Recall 5128. Should be in your service book. Mine was done long before I got it, and rear tyres show hardly any wear.
Plenty of info on rear alignment on here.

Does the recall involve doing anything that isn't done by a standard tyre/alignment garage?

The recall is nothing more than a realignement with slightly different values. Nothing excessive.

The recall does also call for the inner track arm 'cam head bolts' to be replaced.

This is where the confusion occurred fo me. The new bolts are a different part number to the old bolts. So that left a begging question if the new bolts had changed the cam offset profile to allow for more adjustment.

Now Fiat looked at my car strictly under the recall procedure and deemed the tyre wear (almost bald after 11,500 miles) to be within spec. This is because the recall specs/criteria are looking at inside to outside DIFFERENTIAL wear and not absolute level wear. In my case I had excessive negative camber AND excessive Toe-In resulting in a grind the tyre flat in 11K miles

Coming back to the cam head bolts. The bulletin is not quite consitent with the offical eLearn workshop manual. All the bolts on the rear (and most of the front) suspension are so called "stretch bolts" and eLearn says they must be replaced. Adjusting the the rear required four stretch bolts to be undone, adjusted and retightened. However the recall/campained only requires two bolts to be replaced. This is what led me to believe that there was a camhead bolt offset change invloved to allow the negative camber to be set more vertical. WRONG!. I bought a set of the later bolts and measured them up against the earlier factory fit bolts and mechanically they are identical. The only difference is that the original bolts have 'marks' at fixed angles around the cam flange wheres the later ones are just blank.

The later bolts just appear to be a cost reduction reengineering tweek.

Thanks for all the info. Well mine's working fine so I won't investigate further.

I wonder if it's possible that only earlier cars were subject to the recall? - mine's a 56-reg. Either that or the Fiat dealer I rang are liars. They did take approximately 0.5 seconds to check that there were no recalls for it.

The Technical Bulletin - Product Update 5138
Vehicles Affected - Fiat Croma Chassis No. 2001122 to 2028895

So a chassis number based campaign (which is normal) and not based on registration date.

s130 I do agree -- my chassis is a 206xxx series number (2007 56 plate), no recall exists per 2 Fiat garages I've asked, none at all for my car per the eSIGI, no campaigns or recalls. HOWEVER, my rear suspension has suffered from (a) ****e dampers recently changed for Sachs gas ones which are great (b) misaligned wheels per laser alignment done last week which I did as a result of (c) eating rear ContiSports tyres in, well, to be fair there was 3mm left after 13,500 miles, so around 17,000 miles anticipated. Even wear. All the technicians I've spoken to say the Croma and Brava are heavy on rear tyres, period. So I'm dead jealous of anyone posting here saying very little rear wear is now occurring after adjustments (either through recall or not). Whatever adjustments took place under recall/campaign, Fiat arent offering it for my later car despite its track record of very poor rear tyre wear. Rather a shambles given the backdrop of earlier chassis numbers having a recall for the said same problem. Maybe I'll badger them some more. Anyone got any other thoughts for what to do beyond changing dampers and a 4 wheel laser alignment, given that Fiat are not helping me ?

s130 you are a godsend with all your know how, I'm so glad I found this forum with my recent troubles.

Does a 4 wheel laser alignment measure camber as well as toe in, and if so could camber then be adjusted without changing the stretch bolts ? Is the bolt change time consuming and technically does it require precision tightening according to some technical measurement or other ?

I could ask the man who did the alignment, but thought I'd ask you too since you are such a mind of information ...

Other than dampers and laser alignment now done, I dont know if I can do anything else except drive a few thousand miles and then measure tyre wear on my new Goodyear NCT5s to assess how they're getting on ?

Also could the EBD be sending lots of braking effort to the rears and might that contribute to higher rear tyre wear than my experience of other FWD cars without EBD ?

Starting with the basics, do you usually carry people in the rear, heavy loads or tow something?

My rear tyres seem to be lasting forever, but 99% of the time ours is used as a one- or two-seater, with nothing in the boot (other than emergency tools and a full-size 18" alloy spare).

A four wheel laser alignment measures everything.

These are normally categorised and Primary Angles and Secondary Angles

Front Primary: Caster, Camber & Toe
Rear Primary: Camber, Toe and Thrust angle

These are all you really need to worry about.

Regarding changing the bolts - I've had several adjustments and still have the same bolts.

Thanks s130. Doofer -- my load profile is the same as yours - rarely anything other than driver and sometimes passenger, nothing in the boot, and no tow bar. I was gutted when the rears went, hadnt looked at them in the first 9 months since fitting, then realised they were almost gone at 13,500 miles. Maybe National tyres are too blame, they adjusted the tracking manually when they fitted the ContiSports, but I cant prove their workmanship was at fault and anyway I dont think it was -- the whole reason I had to change the rear tyres last year was because the pair I bought the car with (Bridgestone) wore out in the first year I owned the car. So I merrily spent £350 on a pair of rear tyres a year ago because we now carry a baby and are a bit overly precious about it. On a front wheel drive car which does no heavy work. They lasted 17,000 miles. I'm still sore about it now, the fronts (cheap tyres called "Infinity") have 3 mill left after 25,000 miles. They dont grip so good mind Our Polo has done 40,000 in 4 years (Michelin Energy) and there's still a few mil left on the rears which came with the car when we bought it. Fiat have been utterly useless to me on this problem, despite the backdrop -- the recall for earlier chassis numbers. I'm pretty cheesed off with them, Fiat UK customer service were worse than useless, they wrote an email in response to my email, claiming they couldnt answer me in writing so I should ring up. Pathetic. I wont be buying another Fiat, I know that, and I have told everyone I know how poor the after sales support is and how ridiculous the prices for parts. I still like my Croma very much though. Hmmm .... maybe I will change the Polo for an Idea after all .... aaaaagggh what am I saying !

Tom Cobbly said:

Maybe National tyres are too blame, they adjusted the tracking manually when they fitted the ContiSports

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I'd bet money that this is the problem. I've got visions of a greasy mechanic shutting one eye and wiggling it, saying "yeah that looks lovely". If it doesn't involve specifications from a computer and lasers then it will definitely be wrong!

Any decent tyre/tracking shop with computerised laser 4 wheel kit should provide you with a 'before' and 'after' adjustment report showing all the critical setting values, how far they were in/out of spec and a final set of figures after they adjusted your car.

This type of service is CRUCIAL when trying to eradicate tracking issues and where possible trying to get some claim back/compensation.

Sadly 99% of Joe public just allow tyre shops to retrack (even if it was not required) and drive away with nothing more than a bill and empty wallet.

On a low end cost car (x make, cheap common low spec tyres) then a £30 tyre suffering wear will possibly not get the car owner all worked-up. However when decent Croma tyres cost £140+ each then we quite rightly get much much more concerned and critical.

Fully converted over to FK452 tyres today. My first pair came out of the Shirakawa (U2) plant that briefly closed in the Fukushima disaster, & I did wonder if my next pair might glow-in-the-dark. But they came out of the Miyazaki (V4) plant on Kyushu island.

Had a chat with the tyreman & asked him what tyres gave him problems. He singled-out Wanli & Sunny – said they took a lot of weights to balance-up right. Also LingLong – said supplied a set to a customer who was insistent on cheap tyres, but soon changed-his-mind when the wife spun the car.

The tyreman ran on Hankook - & the tyreshop owner ran on Nexen.

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55 Croma 1.9/16v150 65.2Kmls (225/45ZR18XL95Y)

2011/07/07 21:14