Hi all!

Im doing an interesting/odd conversion and swapping my old 965cc engine out of my panda 4x4 and placing in an injection 899 cinq. My thoughts were the old engine is probably tired, its a pain to start once left and I want a more reliable setup.

The 899 cinq engine fits so I have swapped them over. Im at the wiring stage and could use some help?

For the most part everything plugs in but I wanted to confirm a few things as I havent used the complete loom, the alt/starter motor are old panda units that plug in to the panda really rather basic loom (it turns over but wont fire at mo as no ecu)

So, I think I have sussed a few things with the help of john here



Orange wire is 12v ignition live for the ECU?
Red and white is a switched 12v earth for the engine management light

orange and green is the Fuel pump 12v out?

Does the ECU get power any other way than that orange wire? seems small for driving the ECU and coils

Lastly I have a codebox that I have to contend with



Any advice that results in me sorting this will get a beer in the post!

Thanks all

OK,

Firstly you have a codebox, not lastly.

Remember that the ecu does not fire the coils, it switches them to earth.

D

rallycinq said:

OK,

Firstly you have a codebox, not lastly.

D

Click to expand...

Firstly I have to own a panda and cinq, then decide to do this, then transport them about, then take the engine out of the cinq, and panda, then sort out the exhaust, down pipe, lambda, swap the alternator over, starter motor, engine mounts, refit the cinq engine, refit everything, re-plum the cooling, replace oil pressure switch, put back on manifold and exhaust, mount the ECU and then run most of the loom.

The box will prevent the car from running, but so will most of the above and wiring is much easier when you have everything else in place.

Coil packs, you are spot on

Out of interest - why would you not fit an 1108cc Fire instead of the old 899? Perhaps its gearbox comparability or something?

Maybe this would be too common place? Are the 965 and 899cc related?

Would spares not be much more common/cheaper for the 1108?

I understand the code box needs to be paired to the ECU or the ECU immobilizer chip needs to be altered to remove the immobilizer function. This may be easier with an 1108cc ecu?

Would an early cinq have an engine bay loom which you could plug in with the D4 connector? Sounds like you may already be ahead with regards to the wiring.

I'm not knocking your approach here just thinking out loud.

Its a fair question,

The 965cc is a old design, pushrod and pre the fire design? I would have loved to have gone for the 1.1 or even the 1.2 but they wont go up against the gearbox. If I had a later panda 4x4 I could have gone that way. To be honest if I had been prepared to take the bell housing of the gearbox I suspect I could have been able to go that route. That said a 899 was close, was cheep and was delivered to me at no extra cost.

I also suspect that power output wise now there is no CAT and the downpipe is of a much better standard, and given how low the old unit felt on power. I will still be up on power.

I used a complete donor car and made sure it was running before I started. I have the ECU and the Code box, I can follow the wires though the loom that's not a real issue. The worry for me was the wires going to the binnacle in the Cinq and knowing what they were doing.

I wanted to be able to use the panda more often and the best way in my mind was move towards a ECU and fuel injection. its a more complex system but it was always start when cold and be more (hopefuly) reliable.

Going forwards in a few years I may go the Sci route if I really need more power.

if you still have all of the plugs on the original cinq loom, you should not really have to worry about wires.. the loom i had did not involve alternators and fans. i dont even think it even had a wire in it for the oil light!

this was going back to a day or so before my dad died 3 yeas ago so i kinda forgot most things.

i pretty much installed the code box last when i did Fallouts swap.

its just a simple matter of matching the wiring colours with that. there will be a wire on it that goes to nothing and thats the code light which is only to be used as an earth.
pretty cool thing happens with that, if you wire a bulb to a constant live then earth it through that wire, it flashes when the car is left parked up. looks kinda good like extra security. dono why fiat wire them to an ignition live. if they used a small LED it would make the car seem more secure to a would be thief.

coil packs are simple, pretty much if the engine does not run just swap the input plugs around on the coil packs.

that video is a little differant as i dont have the code box on that ecu.. but it is pretty much the same.

just think man, no choke or messing around cold starting.. it is pretty good.

Cheers John,

Seems the loom I ended up is quite different, oil pressure sensor is part of the extended loom, There is also another section of loom that loops round and plugs in, having followed this its a perm 12v

The Code box also adds a small level of extra hassle as that plugs in to the main loom, goes to the fuse box, a 12v live and 3 places on the binical.

If this does give me real issue I know of two people who can remove the code system now.

made good progress yesterday stripping out what I didn't need and matching colors and wire sizes