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Old 27-11-2015   #1
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Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

I'm currently preparing (with help from my son Lewis) my Cinquecento Sporting for use in RAC MSA Sprints & Hillclimbs with the odd track day here and there.
Weve chosen to go into the Modified Production class as the engine and suspension mods that I'd already carried out when it was on the raod made the Cinq ineligible for the Standard Production class.
For Mod Prods we are allowed to remove all the interior,remove very the heating system,fit perspex windows,inlet and exhaust systems are free as are the brakes and suspension but you can only use the original cylinder block that was fitted from the factory although this can be overbored and dry sumped.

We started by stripping out the complete standard Sporting interior and heater and then Lewis had the job of chipping out all the floor sound deadening to save a bit of weight.

With the sound deadening removed we welded 3mm thick reinforcing plates to the floor which the roll cage will bolt to.

The bare metal floors were painted in Rustbuster 121 epoxy mastic paint which I'd had sitting on the shelf from a previous project.

The roll cage was made to current FIA spec by Sassa in Italy and supplied by Rallyshop.It who also supplied the Sparco Sprint bucket seat, there service was superb and the prices including postage from Italy was cheaper than sourcing the parts from UK suppliers.

The roll cage was painted in satin black By Prestige Paintworks who I work for.

The battery was relocated to the inside of the car and placed in a MSA battery box.

We've completely done away with the Punto 75 injection system and Ecu that had been fitted to the car when it was on the road and opted for 34mm motorbike carbs and a Panda distributor, we've done because we saw the standard Mpi/single throttle body system as being too restrictive for planned future engine mods.
I fabricated the inlet manifold myself, the full radius bellmouths were an EBay bargain find but needed trimming to fit the carbs.

All the glass with the exception of the windscreen will be removed and replaced with perspex to save a bit more weight although the standard Cinq glass is surprisingly thin so not as much weight was saved as originally thought.

The project is progressing well and the engine now starts and runs on the bike carbs but will need setting up on the dyno to take full advantage of them.
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Last edited by biggelmo; 27-11-2015 at 00:14.
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Old 27-11-2015   #2
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

Looks good, I'd second your recommendation of rallyshop.it - bought my sparco cage from them.
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Old 29-11-2015   #3
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

I've read your other posts. As a seasoned hill climbs and sprinter the area your going intonis very competitive and ruled by the mini.

With the engine choicez, staying on 1108cc block to keep within regs you will struggle.

I was building a cento a few years ago but sold it to support the season of the time.

Engine wise, I have a formula 750, so know what you can so. But to get the most power and be competitive. I would

Sleave or destroke the block olto 999cc.
Then fit a turbo. You will be still in the correct class (after applying x1.4 rule) bit you will have more power!
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Old 26-12-2015   #4
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

Quote Originally Posted by cartledge_uk View Post
I've read your other posts. As a seasoned hill climbs and sprinter the area your going intonis very competitive and ruled by the mini.

With the engine choicez, staying on 1108cc block to keep within regs you will struggle.

I was building a cento a few years ago but sold it to support the season of the time.

Engine wise, I have a formula 750, so know what you can so. But to get the most power and be competitive. I would

Sleave or destroke the block olto 999cc.
Then fit a turbo. You will be still in the correct class (after applying x1.4 rule) bit you will have more power!
Well after a lot of chat with my local engine builder/machine shop chum discussing the pro's and con's of a 999cc turbo versus and heavily moded 1108cc NA engine we've both agreed that for ultimate power the Turbo is the way to go.

If we had gone down the 1108cc route the theoretical list of mods would've been...
Bigger bore from 70.0mm to 72.4mm using Ford 1250 Zetec 0.5mm oversize pistons, Zetec pistons were used in some GSR engine conversions but we had no idea if a 1108cc block would stand this piston size.
Increase the crank stroke by offset grinding the big ends to 0.5mm undersize, so with a 72.5 stroke and a 72.4 would increase the capacity from 1108cc to 1194cc.
The head would be a well ported Punto 75 eight valve head with bigger inlet valves from a late 1108cc engine, this may have needed custom valve guides as the late 1108cc valves are thought to have thinner stems.
The cam would be a 300 degree 11mm lift race cam.
Induction would be via motorbike carbs.
The bottom end would need balancing,straightening,knife edging and lightening with a billet steel flywheel and possibly steel conrods to handle the expected high revs.

We were confident this spec would make 120+bhp but that would still leave us about 30bhp short of the current class leading 1.0 litre turbo engined cars so a 999 FIRE turbo engine is the way to go.

Ive made a start getting the bits together for a 999 turbo build and have been scouring the InterWeb for turbo info with good results, as I think (I could be wrong) an 1108cc engine is a long stroke 999cc engine (common block same bore) it'll still be eligible for MSA Sprints & Hill Climbs as it meets the "externally identifiable" regulation.

Again this is a theoretical engine build but here goes...
999cc Panda 4x4 block, balanced,straightened, lightened bottom end.
I may look into fitting the oil squirters from a scrap P75 block to keep the piston temperature down.
Pistons to remain standard.
P75 cylinder head well ported with a tiny skim with either its 866 cam or the Panda 4x4 cam.
Decompression plate and 2 mls head gaskets.
Garrett T15 seams to be well suited to a small cc engines.
Fueling will be via a moded P75 inlet manifold with injectors to suit powered by a Polestar ECU which has fuel,ignition and boost retard capabilites.

http://www.polestarsystems.com/Products-2.htm
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Last edited by biggelmo; 26-12-2015 at 17:50.
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Old 30-12-2015   #5
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

Good spec. Not sure if you want the 4x4 cam? But I'm not very clued up on turbos... maybe there is an advantage?
Specs:
http://forum.clubcento.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=568
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Old 03-01-2016   #6
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

Thanks for that Purf, I knew I'd seen it somewhere.
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Old 10-01-2016   #7
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

Looks fun, just a wee mention. There was a group buy of Quaife ATBs a good few years ago. I bought extras, and still have a brand new one in its box.

Just saying

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Old 16-01-2016   #8
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

Interesting looking build. Lots of room in the back for the weekly shopping Have fun with it
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Old 17-01-2016   #9
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

The Cinq has now been on the dyno to get the bike carbs properly set up, after a lot of adjusting and several jet changes we managed to increase the power figure by 5 from its previous 73bhp up to 78bhp with a slightly rich top end mixture.
After a another jet change to lean the top end mixture the throttle cable broke on the last power run so that put and end to games for the evening.
The dyno testing also showed that the cheap Chinese electric fuel was losing fuel pressure and running very hot so will need to be replaced before the next dyno session.
Other plans to liberate a few more horsepower before the next dyno session are to cut out the catalyst and remove the alternator which are now not needed.

Today I weighed the Cinq on a set of corner weight scales to see what it weighs after our weight loss program.
It came in at 688.5kg with a 1/4 tank of fuel and no driver.
It should be possible to get down to around 660kg if we cut out the linings of the doors,hatch and bonnet and possibly remove all the lights and standard wiring loom ( but I'm not sure if this is legal for the Sprint class we're entering.
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Old 18-01-2016   #10
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

I've had to do that job a few times (pic 1), never much fun and as soon as you think you've chipped out all of that sound deadening resin it turns out there's a load more!

Where are you planning to run the cinq once it's finished? It's a shame there's no hillclimbs left down this end of the country.
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Old 18-01-2016   #11
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

Gurston Down is quite neat me. Just South of Salisbury

http://www.gurstondown.org/
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Old 23-01-2016   #12
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

I've recently joined Sevenoaks & District Motor Club as I plan to run in their Speed League Sprint championship, the first round that I'm planning on doing will be April 23rd at Goodwood.
I would like if possible to get a track day in before then as a shake down.

I've taken some more weight out of the Cinq today by removing the alternator ( running total loss electrics), removing the catalyst and the carbon fuel fume filter system.
I'm now planning on making a 9 litre fuel tank to mount in the standard position and fill via the standard fuel filler cap ( placing it under the floor makes scrutineering a whole lot easier).
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Old 25-01-2016   #13
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

Quote Originally Posted by biggelmo View Post
I've recently joined Sevenoaks & District Motor Club as I plan to run in their Speed League Sprint championship, the first round that I'm planning on doing will be April 23rd at Goodwood.
I would like if possible to get a track day in before then as a shake down.

I've taken some more weight out of the Cinq today by removing the alternator ( running total loss electrics), removing the catalyst and the carbon fuel fume filter system.
I'm now planning on making a 9 litre fuel tank to mount in the standard position and fill via the standard fuel filler cap ( placing it under the floor makes scrutineering a whole lot easier).

What class are you going to run in? I presume not std roadgoing?

Fit a gel battery (3kg+ saving right there)
bypass the heater matrix (save a couple of liters of coolant), pull and bin the matrix - keep the heater, needed for MOT.

Replace the driver seat for lightweight fibreglass kit car seat. these are compliant with sprint regs, but have no padding etc.

Alloys are very heavy, fit some lightweight ones and you can save a lot, plus its rotational mass.

replace bonnet/boot catch with pins.

Fibreglass bonnet and bootlid would be massive weight saving
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Last edited by cartledge_uk; 25-01-2016 at 21:03.
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Old 25-01-2016   #14
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

I'm planning on running in up to 1400cc Modified Production class, I know that to start with a 1108 Cinq with a few engine mods will be uncompetitive but it's a good place to start from.
A gel battery is on the "wanted" list along with Grp doors,bonnet, hatch & wings.
The complete heater has been removed as part of a basic weight saving plan.
The standard Sporting alloys are very heavy so will be replaced with Compomotive alloys at some point, I'm fairly confident I can get the weight down to under 650kg.
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Old 25-01-2016   #15
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Re: Sprint & Hillclimb spec Cinquecento

Sorry I just caught up on the thread, and you say above mod prod.

Very nice build!

Have you got a supplier for the fibreglass panels? If you started making some you could make a bit of profit i'm sure!
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Last edited by cartledge_uk; 25-01-2016 at 23:02.
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