crazySnublz said:

What I want to know is, apart from a guy on facebook (he's on here somewhere but I don't his name or what to search for to find his posts) has anyone managed it in succession with real world driveabilty? If so, what ITB's did you use and did you have to take out the heater matrix and crap?

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I know there are more out there, had a short ride-along in a ITB'ed 1.2 whilst picking up a spare engine 4-5 years ago, i do think the heater matrix was gone. I think the guy was using ITBs from a 600 or 900 suzuki..

Ah the endless tyre debate, everyone has their own opinion on these things. Personally, every cento i have had i ran 185/50/14, if anything makes the speedo more accurate as they under read massively. yoko a539 were always my fave but thats a personal choice, they are epic in the dry and good enough in wet.

ITBs... well they sound cool, they don't give the huge power people think but they will drive nice and sound epic if setup properly.. The question has to be asked though, why if going to the effort would you not ITB the 16v?

Cheers for the input guys. Getting the right ITB's are going to be the struggle in reality.
blu73 I know they don't give the huge power increase that everyone expects but seeing as I'm running single point I'm still expecting more power than its currently putting out. And regarding why I'm choosing to do it to my current engine rather than the 16v is mainly down to the fact that I have limited time and I'm hoping to keep my heater system by making my own filters and to be perfectly honest I want to be different and the 8v is a lot easier for me and my dad to make a standalone system for the fuel injection. And I don't particularly know much about 16v engines in general apart from the golf 1.8 and 2 litre

thats fair enough mate, its good to be different I suspect just a straight 16v swap would end up better to drive but i have nothing against 8v at all - i am infact dropping one in my classic panda. And certainly the head is much bigger and wider on the valver engines for obvious reasons.

But getting it in there with the heater box and ITBs is totally doable, Jamie (Todger182) managed to get some in on a 1.4 16v so it shouldn't be all that hard. Here is the thread, ITB stuff starts from this post although if you want to read from the start its a good thread. https://www.fiatforum.com/members-motors/237628-chalky-1-4-16v-itb-seicento-5.html?p=2789378

Yeah, no doubt the 16v would be better to drive overall but I'm more aiming for the sheer thrill of driving it and the thrill of the build.

The valver engine in the panda sounds like an awesome build, have you got a thread going on it?

Cheers for the link, of what I've read it sounds like a good well documented read and it sounds like chalky is a mean machine, I'll give it a good read when I get the chance.

It's a shame I don't live closer to more of the members so I can ask for a hand and things like that.

i'm doing 1.2 8v mpi not 16v. there is a few of the p75 engines and valver pandas in the panda section.
Not actually very far along mine, just engine out and waiting for money to buy parts for donor engine before i stick it in atm. But thread is here - http://fiatforum.com/members-motors/432339-charmanda-er-mania-continued.html

Ah right my mistake started writing the post while rushing drinking my coffee in work then forgot about it and didn't re read before posting.
Looks like a good read from the first few pages, I'll definitely be subscribing, reading it all and keeping an eye on it as things progress.
At least you've kept in the fiat scene after selling Betty, even if it's in the panda section (no offence meant to any of the many sections on the forum)

I was talking to two of the boys in work, one suggested carbs mainly down to the fact that he a set of 2 twin 40's on his strada if I remember correctly. The other mentioned 600 carbs but when I mentioned that finding a set in good condition is a bit of a job, so he said about finding some ITB's off ideally a Kawasaki as they are the best for power (he's ex bike mechanic in Guildford and his last bike was a zx6r which he loved).

One thing I did mention to them and they seem to think might work, is have something like 2" of pipe with a 30degree angle coming off the flange then a 45degree bit of pipe attached to it to get the bodies to be pointing up as much as possible without a direct 90 bend in them which would upset the air flow Obviously to try and clear the heater box and for slightly easier fitting and adjustments that may need to happen on the fly, what do you think?

Without an airflow tester (or whatever they're called) and a template made up I know a definitive yes or no answer is next to impossible, as I know ideally the straighter the better.

Glen pretty sure he's on here but for the life of can remember his users has an 1108 on bike carbs with a serious ammont of head work and I think that pulled just over 100hp on the dyno

The 16v vs 8v has always been a massive debate both have pros and cons I fitted an p75 1242 8v in my sei and it's drives so much nicer then the 1108

just forget about carbs, they are prehistoric design and you will most likely never going to pass emissions come mot time.

The main problem as i understand it doing ITBs is getting a the right runner length as this effects how it works massively, obviously its not really this simple but you want the longest you can managed, velocity stacks on top will also help. And also getting the right size, too small and you slow airflow at top end and too big and they run crap lower in revs...

Its a bit of a balancing act, you need them to be big enough but going too big is also bad. Jenvey would be a good place to start researching stuff - http://www.jenvey.co.uk/faq/general-faq

There is also quite a bit of stuff about tuning ITBs on the megasquirt forums http://www.msextra.com/forums/

crazySnublz said:

Ah right my mistake started writing the post while rushing drinking my coffee in work then forgot about it and didn't re read before posting.
Looks like a good read from the first few pages, I'll definitely be subscribing, reading it all and keeping an eye on it as things progress.
At least you've kept in the fiat scene after selling Betty, even if it's in the panda section (no offence meant to any of the many sections on the forum)

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No offence taken buddy, I will probs always have a fiat lol. I got a '62 plate 500 which i bought for the mrs as her first car, she passed now so i don't get to drive it all that often anymore lol. And I will without doubt have another cento at some point, thinking about replacing the Suzuki with one - but not until I have finished messing with it

blu73 said:

The main problem as i understand it doing ITBs is getting a the right runner length as this effects how it works massively, obviously its not really this simple but you want the longest you can managed, velocity stacks on top will also help. And also getting the right size, too small and you slow airflow at top end and too big and they run crap lower in revs...

Its a bit of a balancing act, you need them to be big enough but going too big is also bad. Jenvey would be a good place to start researching stuff - http://www.jenvey.co.uk/faq/general-faq

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Yeah the runner length is going to be a pain but I'm sure with research and time I'll figure it out and post everything I figure out on this thread so if anyone wants to do it as well there'll be some info for the 8v as well as todgers 16v.

Wow the Jenvey link you posted is full of info for everything from different types of throttlebody setups to the reasoning behind the trumpet shape. It was well worth the read even if I wasn't going to be doing it mainly down to the fact that with all the rally cars that come in on them it's a good bit of knowledge.

Anyway slightly off topic, been working on a big red fiat that's worth about 50k, can anyone guess what it is from this picture?

Well one of the guys in work mentioned about a motorsport mini posted by someone on Instagram that he follows, and he says that he has the trumpets poking up out the bonnet. So what I'm thinking is depending on how the manifold will look,possibly making a bonnet scoop for 2 reasons, to give some extra clearance against the bonnet and ultimately give extra cool air feed rather than have ugly ducting to feed the cool air to them. But the problem with that is the fact that I am hoping to keep it looking relatively standard bar the green wheels but if I go down that route I might as well throw that aim out the door and go all out maybe.

Well, things have been quiet as I've been running around like a headless chicken these past couple months.

She failed the MOT the other week on a few minor things like emissions, but that was glossed over very briefly after buying a round of Greggs for everybody for 2 weeks .

As much as it pains me to say this, she will be coming off the road if all goes to plan in about a months time if I can get my new purchase of a Golf mk2 sprayed and MOT'd. She won't be left altogether to rot and wither as a few plans are circling but nothing concrete as of yet, that's if the Golf handles alright and goes well. If not, the Golf will be gone and I'll be back to the Sei in a heartbeat and do something to treat her.

I've always said that the only way I will get rid of the Sei is if I crash her or if a decent comes in for her. She's done me well these past 3 1/2 years, it's time she got some time off from being hooned around and terrorising the local corsas and saxos .

After a brief absence from driving my little Sei, she's going to be making a come back after a little bit of a fuelling issue is sorted, the golf has sold and bike test is passed. So if anyone is in the market for a mk2 golf, go check out my ad in the classifieds.

She never left my ownership just took a well deserved rest, I'm guessing the fuel pump is on it's very last legs as it sounds rough as hell when priming and the loss of power after a couple minutes of driving. It's been on the list for a while as its been slowly getting worse and worse even before she wasn't driven anywhere near as much.

Anyway just thought I'd let everybody that wants to know, know what's happening.

Good news! Was the golf any good then?

The Golf was a dream come true purf, but ultimately it should have been a GTI either MK2 or 3. Doesn't quite beat the Sei as a daily driver or with the amount of things you can get in the back of it with the seats folded down.

But economically and emotionally as well, it's better for me to sell the Golf to fund the new obsession as they've made it more difficult and more expensive to legally ride a bike. Not to mention living in the back end of nowhere means that test stations that do it are a minimum of an hours drive away.

Wow, over a year since I’ve updated this thread.

Ultimately not a lot has happened as life, job, rally car and bike has taken up the majority of my waking hour and some of my sleeping time too ?

As some may have seen in a previous post asking about brake carriers, I have finally been given the calipers and carriers from the bravo and test fitted them before ordering anything else. So they will be painted and rebuilt ready for when the parts procurement manager gets me a price in work.

Also I managed to get a hold of an old sparco steering wheel that was taking up space. So that has been painted and fitted too (obviously in green)

That’s all that has happened really as the motorcycle has had the worst running problems I’ve encountered but that’s what happens when it’s 23 years old and running carbs I suppose.

Some pictures of said callipers etc, only rust treated so far whilst a paint colour is decided but it’ll either be black or silver as well as the steering wheel.
And slightly off topic just to show it, the bike is also pictured. Sporting the green wheels too

Alright then guys, I know this thread has been pretty quiet for a few years. But we all know how life goes especially these days.

She is now up for sale on the classifieds due to personal circumstances changing and about to have no where to keep her. So if any one fancies a good doner or want to get her back on the road, let me know.

Not sure of the rules so correct me if I'm wrong, here's the link to the ad.
https://www.fiatforum.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=36339&cat=30