Times change.

So, we are entering a new era of Fiat engines. The euro 4/5 or what ever they are called now.

Any one wanting to do an engine change for a low mileage one from the new range, Beware!
Fiat have been busy with thier unification programme. This is to try and standardise many parts within the new engine range.

The new type cylinder head from the 8v has a new basic camshaft design, so no more 866 cam fitting.

The top one is the new type.


The New Panda 1.1 came with a 673 cam with about a 7.5+mm lift.
The 1.2 Grande Punto came with a 804 cam with about 9.5+mm lift.
I don't know any of the other specs.

The inlet ports on the 1.1 are not the same as the 1.2, which used to be on the earlier MPI heads.

1108 inlet ports.


1242 inlet ports.


New head internal design.


The 1242 came with a metal type head gasket but the 1108 did not.
The 1242 also may not have the cut out in the head for the inlet manifold water temp sensor as fitted to the 1108. This will be evident with the new style multi outlet thermostat housing.

1242. The castings on this head could be based on the old punto 75 mpi head?



1108. You can see the multi process casting lines alot on this head.


Cam cover with new style intergrated oil feeds for the cam bearings.


The crank shaft diameter is bigger on the crank pulley end. This has a new crank pulley which is wider and uses a wider belt/new water pump/cam pulley and spring loaded tensioner bearing design.

Siecento MPI alternator fitted here.


The normal alignment problems.


I believe I have one solution to the above problem. The 2005 seicento has an oil pump with the same seal part No; as the 1242 with the larger crank. I have ordered one from Poland complete with new drive gear, which at present, comes to £126 for a complete pump. Fiat part No: 55205333, and Fiat part No: 55205336 for the drive gear @ £17. I have also ordered the alternator drive pulley 55181185 to match, as the holes have been shifted a few degrees.

Interesting!

So easy way may be to grab and use the whole engine, tune it as a new prospect?

This

Looks like shell bearings for the cam? At last?

Main problem is the new crank/pump/crank sensor setup. Have to look into other cheaper solutions other than oil pump replacement though.
The cam bearings are one piece.

Interesting indeed.

Let me know your final cost to convert the oil pump ?

Did you have to use the crank sprocket?

Also you change the pump just use the cento crank pulley and alternator?

ycming said:

Interesting indeed.

Let me know your final cost to convert the oil pump ?

Did you have to use the crank sprocket?

Also you change the pump just use the cento crank pulley and alternator?

Click to expand...

I hope the pump and pulleys fit ok. They should if they are for a Seicento. The only concern is the clearance issues with the sump/pump housing, along with alignment issues when fitting everything together.

Would be interesting to see how this turns out as i'm potentially looking for a low mileage engine for a 1.2 conversion and the newer ones seem the only low mileage option...

What is the size of the head of the bolt that bolts the crank pulley onto the crank... is it 15mm by any chance?

I have seen 15mm versions (bigger crank) and 13mm versions (smaller crank) the 15mm versions have a longer gear which pushes the pulley out further. They also have a different oil pump which has a longer crank sensor to space out further and a different housing which fits round the crank to accomodate for the bigger crank and a different seal...

Cheers, Matt

cc1 said:

Main problem is the new crank/pump/crank sensor setup. Have to look into other cheaper solutions other than oil pump replacement though.
The cam bearings are one piece.

Click to expand...

One of the guys even put up a solidworks (I think) picture of the aluminium bracket he'd milled out to relocate it.

Booky! -- Job for you!

I have ordered some ally plates, 6/8/10mm to make some engine mount spacers. I think 6mm might just do it to clear the mount with the alternator belt but might put too much strain on the two outer mounts? We will see. If it works, then a complete standard engine could be fitted without the need for grinding one of the engine mounts and messing with pumps/pulleys.
The pump will take about 2 weeks to arrive to test this option. I have noticed that the auxillary belt pulleys for the 1.1 panda engine and the 1.2 punto grande engines are not the same. The flat parts for the crank sensor triggering are at different points. What happend to fiats unification here then?

Does any one know which ecu runs the 1.1 panda engine?

fingers99 said:

One of the guys even put up a solidworks (I think) picture of the aluminium bracket he'd milled out to relocate it.

Booky! -- Job for you!

Click to expand...

This might be another option using a 16v pulley, but the thing was welded on after hack sawing the pump, not some thing every one could do.
The new crank sensor mount would need to be a two piece part that clamps into position after cutting.

@Sporty 5. It's a 15mm hex head bolt on the crank pulley.

The crank is stamped 8v/16v but I don't know if the con rods are the same for both variants.
New type metal head gasket was interesting being a 2 piece sandwich structure.
Water pumps are different also. The newer punto engine has the much deeper plastic impeller.
Sump bolts are primarily M8 now clamping a wider surround which can make sump pan removal harder.

Next thing will be the cylinder head on the 1.2.
I will probably, only be cleaning up the ports on this head as they are quite large standard.

Pretty sure this one wasn't/or wouldn't need to be. In effect, it located in the original hole for the TDC sensor and simply moved it over a little. Dunno how he located it (and can't find it at the moment), but certainly nothing special.

cc1 said:

I have ordered some ally plates, 6/8/10mm to make some engine mount spacers. I think 6mm might just do it to clear the mount with the alternator belt but might put too much strain on the two outer mounts? We will see. If it works, then a complete standard engine could be fitted without the need for grinding one of the engine mounts and messing with pumps/pulleys.
The pump will take about 2 weeks to arrive to test this option. I have noticed that the auxillary belt pulleys for the 1.1 panda engine and the 1.2 punto grande engines are not the same. The flat parts for the crank sensor triggering are at different points. What happend to fiats unification here then?

Does any one know which ecu runs the 1.1 panda engine?

Click to expand...

Both car have aircon?

No air-con..

New type pistons.


After striping the head and cleaning up the valves, I think I found an inlet one that has a fracture.
The exhaust valves have major pitting so will need a regrind.
The valve seats will probably need doing also.
What's the average cost of this?

I'm almost tempted to fit 4 new exhaust valves but they are over £20 each
This all seems rather bad for a 26k engine.. Must have been a school runner?

I feel compelled to remove the crank and pistons now, seeing as I have gone this far.

Fracturerd inlet valve at 26k is frightening as is pitting. Simply shouldn't happen.

Something is wrong. I'd be inclined to take the head to someone for a comprehensive check out.

Getting valves re-cut is cheap enough, but £20 a hit for exhaust valves is silly. IIRC, competition stainless inlets for K Series are less than £15.

fingers99 said:

Fracturerd inlet valve at 26k is frightening as is pitting. Simply shouldn't happen.

Something is wrong. I'd be inclined to take the head to someone for a comprehensive check out.

Getting valves re-cut is cheap enough, but £20 a hit for exhaust valves is silly. IIRC, competition stainless inlets for K Series are less than £15.

Click to expand...

These valves are fiats new slimmer/lighter type, so I don't know if other make replacements are available yet. I would expect the price to be near £28 now from fiat as my eper is a year + old.
I've had less pitting on a 70k head, so maybe it's one of those neglected cars run on cheap fuel and never got above 3k rpm?

But can you get cheaper fuel? Unless some twerp has been adding an additive..........................

If the valves are the two metal, penny on a stick, variety (test with a magnet) I'd definately look at seeing if there's owt else available out there. (Lots of little companies in Yorkshire and W.Midlands putting out small runs of competition valves).

The New pump setup arrived today.



Fits perfectly.


I would like to know the difference between this pump and the 16v ones. I'll take some detailed pictures later for poeple to compare.
I will compare pulleys from the old 1.1 engine when it gets stripped out.

Managed to get a full set of new valves for the head for about £85 delivered

Much better price on the valves. Did you do the magnet test on them?

fingers99 said:

Much better price on the valves. Did you do the magnet test on them?

Click to expand...

Of all the s**t I do have, I can't find a flipping magnet in the house.
Aha! Sump plug.

Cylinder head skimmed with re-cut valve seats.
33mm inlet/28mm exhaust valves with 5mm stems. Is this the biggest exhaust valves you can fit?