Hi guys, i just want to start by saying that i am not actually thinking of doing this, as i dont have the time, skills or funds to undertake this, i just want to discus the theoretical possibility.

Yesterday i was browsing about a bit and found out that both the bravo and punto (mk2 HGT) come with an 1.8 16v unit. Now i figured if the punto normally fits a FIRE engine, you might be able to do some bodging with the punto engine mounts and squeeze the damn thing into a cento. My next find was that the 1.8 16v block is the same bottom end as used for the alfa romeo 1.8 Twinspark, which in turn has a slightly longer stroked brother, the 2.0 Twinspark.

This led me to the conclusion that with some very tight squeezing and engine mount fabrication, one might be able to swap a 150 BHP 2.0 twinspark engine into a cinq/sei. :slayer:

Obvious weight distribution issues aside, how nuts is this idea?

anything is possible would be my answer to that.
Does anyone have a decent source for finding out engine weights other than just trawling through the interent and searching for the answers.

I don't know enough about the HGT engine to know if it would be worth it at all i'm afraid. But i get the inkling that its not that much more powerful than the 1.4 16v engines - someone confirm please.

Whilst dreaming up silly's the other day i did discover that a honda B16 engine (1.6 vtec, 160-170bhp depending on what car it comes out of) is really not that big or heavy. Subsequently found a B16 turbo powered cento on youtube and its just silly but i really think minus the turbo you would have a seriously cool little motor.

I have an Alfa 156 with the 155hp 2.0TS engine as well as a Fiat Cinq.
First thought is that there isn't much clearance in the engine bay of the considerably wider 156.
I can't be bothered to walk outside and measure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the width of the 2.0TS engine & gearbox on its own isn't far of the full width of a Fiat Cinq!

The 1.6/1.8/2.0 16v are all approx the same size with slight differences in height, but the 1.4 16v is a lot smaller.

On the Alfa theme, the old "genuine" Alfa twin cam is smaller and lighter than the later Alfa/FIAT 16v lump and was fitted to the earlier 155.

But I think I'd go Japanese or K Series (or T Jet!).

The old 1600 MR2 motor will make an easy 150bhp, light, small and revvy (which would probably suit the Cinq chassis better than a torque monster) or the 1.8 K Series.

Or Ducati have a 1.2 litre V (or L) twin -- 195 bhp..................

just calm down about that ducati will you

the honda B16 really isn't a silly idea though - its small and light, revs to 9200 iirc and has 170bhp in stock trim.

Hah, lots of insane ideas here.

My idea was mainly that the 2.0 twinspark is pretty much the same bottom end as the 1.8 16v, which is fitted to a punto, which has decent engine overlap with a cinq.

I'd be surprised if it would fit though, i imagine the 2.0 is way to high to fit under the hood. Although the idea of a punto HGT with a 2.0 twinspark is more feasible

well sei16v managed to stick that vauxhall redtop 2.0 in a seicento... how they compare in size i do not know. Sei's seem to have a bit more space height wise though due to the curve of the bonnet opposed to the flat table top bonnet on a cinq.

Having mad ideas is the easy bit lol.. Actually pulling any of them off is another matter all together. My mate has a CRX del-sol with a B16 engine, been trying to get him to get a bigger engine in it so i can run off with the engine lol.

blu73 said:

just calm down about that ducati will you

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Maybe in about 20 years clicky. :devil:

Bikes just don't float my boat tbh but I will concede that Ducati's are beautiful bits of engineering & design. I know a lad who has had a couple and they do just ooze coolness. If i had to choose a bike it would be a Ducati. And everyone knows red things are faster

The alfa twin spark 150bhp does fit in a seicento , local lad runs one around by me , will try and get pics and a videos

please do.

That's mean you could build a pretty damn fast car for, what, £400?

A fake and also a V6 obviously. Regarding 2.0 TS it is an extremely complex engine. I have owned one (in a 156) for quite some time and reliabillity is not its strong point. They have a thirst for variators, air flow meters, coil packs etc. Also they have a variable inlet tract and plenty of other troblesome gizmos which would be an absolute nightmare unless you removed them all and went back to basics before doing an engine conversion. The newer they are the worse they get some having dual lambdas and all sorts of other magical nonsense. Not for the faint hearted that's for sure. It is a small unit though and with the Alfa bits it makes a rather nice noise, however power is all uper rev range and it's a bit gutless low down. Changing the cam belt is fun...

seicentov8i said:

The alfa twin spark 150bhp does fit in a seicento , local lad runs one around by me , will try and get pics and a videos

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Ooh please do, quite curious to how he pulled it off, and how the bugger drives with that big lump in the front.

fingers99 said:

That's mean you could build a pretty damn fast car for, what, £400?

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I somewhat doubt the 400 quid, 2.0 TS engines are rather susceptible to borking up the crank bearings when the oil level goes below minimum, so replacement engines are sought after by the 156/147/GTV crew, and if you do net an engine, the safe thing to do is replace the crank bearings, or even do a full rebuild. Fully revised 2.0 donor engines go for 1500-2000 euros here.

Honeymonster said:

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A fake and also a V6 obviously. Regarding 2.0 TS it is an extremely complex engine. I have owned one (in a 156) for quite some time and reliabillity is not its strong point. They have a thirst for variators, air flow meters, coil packs etc. Also they have a variable inlet tract and plenty of other troblesome gizmos which would be an absolute nightmare unless you removed them all and went back to basics before doing an engine conversion. The newer they are the worse they get some having dual lambdas and all sorts of other magical nonsense. Not for the faint hearted that's for sure. It is a small unit though and with the Alfa bits it makes a rather nice noise, however power is all uper rev range and it's a bit gutless low down. Changing the cam belt is fun...

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Oh i know, alfa's are my first love really, i sort of dropped down to a fiat cinq as a hobby car due to budgetary constraints :bang: I'd love a GTV, but the buggers are so damn pricey to maintain, and in the course of drooling over them i got well acquainted with the 2.0 TS troubles.

Am really starting to like the little fiats though, even got my eye on a punto HGT if i ever should get rid of the cinq (lest i suddenly find myself a decent 145 QV, but that again has that 2.0 TS)

Seriously, why bother consider the alfa engine, when there is a B-series engine from a Honda? Any B16,B18,B20 would be a much wiser choice!

Ming

ah ha, my vtec plotting partner, you get them told Ming

ycming said:

Seriously, why bother consider the alfa engine, when there is a B-series engine from a Honda? Any B16,B18,B20 would be a much wiser choice!

Ming

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I just have a bit more affinity with italian engines, if it were up to me, my every mode of transportation would be powered by an alfa V6 engine (the busso V6, not that GM JTS POS) :slayer:

Seriously though, the reason i came up with it is the shared technology path from the cinq to the punto, which in turn would fit the twinspark without much trouble (seeing as it has the same bottom end in the HGT)

vitorio said:

I just have a bit more affinity with italian engines, if it were up to me, my every mode of transportation would be powered by an alfa V6 engine (the busso V6, not that GM JTS POS) :slayer:

Seriously though, the reason i came up with it is the shared technology path from the cinq to the punto, which in turn would fit the twinspark without much trouble (seeing as it has the same bottom end in the HGT)

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Fair enough we all like different things.

But that is you assuming the HGT engine is an easy fit to the cento...

ycming said:

Fair enough we all like different things.

But that is you assuming the HGT engine is an easy fit to the cento...

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Yeah i know, my reasoning there was that since both cars fit the normal FIRE base, adapting a cinq to fit the HGT/TS engine might be possible using the punto as a reference. As i said, this isnt a serious plan, i just felt like discussing a somewhat hairbrained idea for fun.

Complete cars are cheap to buy (although the 155s seem to have vanished), but the engines are pretty expensive to work on. FIAT/Alfa unreliability makes the Ducati's 15000 mile service interval look very welcoming!

I still think the old 8v Alfa twinks are wonderful engines, and with EFI and ITBs, they won't be far behind the 16v lump.