Hi, writing from Norway...
Been a member for some time, had a few Punto's. Just bought a -97 Cinq Sporting as a project with no engine in.. but has got a spare one from a Punto SX. This is complete with keys, wiring, ecu and everything.

Seems to me (by searching the forum) allmost all are using 1242 with SPI...Why not use MPI and get more power? Will the wiring cause any problems? I have planned to use the following from the Punto: fuel pump, ecu, wiring, even the gerarbox from Punto

Have I forgotten someting? are there any drawings available on the forum? Maybe this is a stupid idea...I don't know.

Happy for comments.

-Tore

It's certainly doable. A little more complicated due to the wiring, etc.

But. point is, the MPIs don't make any more power out of the crate, and are harder to tune: the SPIs respond well to bigger throttle bodies and a chip, the MPIs need a remap.

So, for all the trouble, a 1242 (or 1.4) 16v starts to make sense.

Welcome.

Hes already got the engine i believe.

Id stick with the SPI ECU and just split the wires as already said.

PM me please with postage info.

Dan

Thanks,
Was thinking just about putting the MPI int the car...
About wiring...are the four injectors running in one batch?
What is really complicated about the wiring? Have both engines complete.

Thanks Dan,

Allready did

-Tore

of course we talking about P Mk1 with magnetti marelli ecu
1.yes its batch (full Group) MPI
2. i not see any difference in wiring of SPI or MPI its so simply, even monkey could do this (in case of cinq 1.1 SPI)

of course we talking about P Mk1 with magnetti marelli ecu

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The OP is talking Mk2.

Doing it with the SPI ECU makes life easier.

I'd even do it with the SPI head! (OP has both engines.)

Just to clearify....

Car -97 1.1 SPI, the engine I was thinking of is from a -98 Punto SX 1.2 8V Mk1 with coded keys.
Will use the Punto gearbox converted to wire gear shift. Allmost identical engines would make this very easy, I hope
Never been modifying these small cars before but allways liked them. Usually used them during the winter to save all my Lancias with Lampredi

The car also has coded keys (have all of them) so the easiest is using the original loom. Splitting the wires from SPI, Punto fuel pump, Punto manifold....thats it

Later it might be a turbo HB which has a huge fun factor...
1.4 16V is rare in Norway and expensive

-Tore

Leave the SPI engine loom in place, you will only need to cut the injector wires/plug and connect the four plugs for the MPI injectors, this will just work as it is a batch system. One other wire that may give you a headache is the CTS plug, but also simple to fix (not sure if your donor engine has two CTS or one). Use the MK1 Punto ECU (unless it has ECOL written on it, but I doubt it since the donor car is '98). Keeping the SPI loom will let you place the ECU in the designated place under the good, the Punto loom is totally different layout.

Mechanically, it is also simple, one thing I struggled with was that the 1.2 engine is taller, and some water pipes were just too short. And then there is the exhaust things to sort out.

woj said:

Leave the SPI engine loom in place, you will only need to cut the injector wires/plug and connect the four plugs for the MPI injectors, this will just work as it is a batch system. One other wire that may give you a headache is the CTS plug, but also simple to fix (not sure if your donor engine has two CTS or one). Use the MK1 Punto ECU (unless it has ECOL written on it, but I doubt it since the donor car is '98). Keeping the SPI loom will let you place the ECU in the designated place under the good, the Punto loom is totally different layout.

Mechanically, it is also simple, one thing I struggled with was that the 1.2 engine is taller, and some water pipes were just too short. And then there is the exhaust things to sort out.

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CTS plug fit without problem (only Palio have 3 pin plug)
water hoses should be extended (connection with inlet manifold are in diferent place) or find waterhoses from seicento 1.1 MPI it fits straight
one thing more better if donor (punto) has no power steering .

You've got me completely confused, now. On Puntos, Mk1 is SPI (unless P75), Mk2 is MPI.

The head from an SPI car can be fitted to an MPI block and will run on an SPI ECU.

There are no advantages to MPI unless:

You need to meet an emission standard
You're turboing the car and want high boost
You want to run individual throttle bodies
You need more than (say) 90bhp
You want to run an aftermarket ECU

If the Punto is SPI, (and 98 will surely be SPI) I'd use the Cinq ECU and chip it.

To make the exhaust longer, either cut and shut a peice of pipe into the downpipe to extend it or get someone to cut a chunk of 10mm steel to match the manifold to downpipe joint and use 2 gaskets.

1.4 16v engines now make up most of FIATs bread and butter cars -- Stilo, Idea, 500, Grande Punto, Panda 100hp etc. Way, way cheaper than a turbo, which will tend to be a real money pit.

Thank you all for shearing your knowhow with me

I'm confused as well

Punto SX 8V in Norway are normally 75Hp. Punto ELX 16V Mk2 arrived in 2000. Maybe this is different in other places of Europe.

Think I will stick with 1242, Cinq loom, split the wires to the injectors, use Punto FP....

We are not allowed to swap engines unless we have the car tested and certified again, the same goes for bigger brakes, lowered car etc...

The manifold/front pipe are from Punto (instead of an adapter)

Fiat/Alfa/Lancia are very rare cars here, mostly German cars

-Tore

fingers99 said:

You've got me completely confused, now. On Puntos, Mk1 is SPI (unless P75), Mk2 is MPI.

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Actually, I am now confused too I was convinced that SX is Punto 75, according to the local on-line catalogue it is not, it would be the SPI 60 engine. But then I am guessing that in some countries SX might be P75, Fiat was never that consistent in keeping names between countries. I am still convinced that in Poland SX is P75.

There are no advantages to MPI unless:

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Don't agree. Even in stock version it is +19HP (54 -> 73) and great fun to drive, very reasonable gain for something that is quite straightforward conversion. Actually, my impression is that currently 50% of PL Club Centos run P75 engines.

If the Punto is SPI, (and 98 will surely be SPI) I'd use the Cinq ECU and chip it.

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In this case you are absolutely right

P75 is early (and very crude!) MPI. Should be easy to do. The manifold is very good as well (if it can be persuaded to fit a Cinq -- never tried!)

Silly thought -- depending on where you live in Norway -- register it in Sweden? Some of their stuff is outrageous, even by UK standards!

Woj -- if it's P75, I agree. If it's an "ordinary" 1242 8v, then surely it's 60bhp, MPI or SPI?

And your base figure -- 54 bhp -- is for an 1108!

The hop up from 1108 - 1242 is worthwhile -- the extra torque makes the car easier to drive by a long way. FIAT should really have fitted the 1242 to all the Sportings.

So just to confirm, by splicing all the wires together all four injectors fire at the same time, they are not timed to each cylender?.

Is the mpi any more fuel efficient than the spi?.

I was thinking about modding a 16v head with an spi manifold and large tb to suit, rather than messing with the ecu and wiring to convert to mpi.

But if it really is that simple I may think again.

woj said:

Actually, I am now confused too I was convinced that SX is Punto 75, according to the local on-line catalogue it is not, it would be the SPI 60 engine. But then I am guessing that in some countries SX might be P75, Fiat was never that consistent in keeping names between countries. I am still convinced that in Poland SX is P75.



Don't agree. Even in stock version it is +19HP (54 -> 73) and great fun to drive, very reasonable gain for something that is quite straightforward conversion. Actually, my impression is that currently 50% of PL Club Centos run P75 engines.



In this case you are absolutely right

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As i understand it, the number refers to the engine, the letter refer the trim level.

So 55 is 1108spi, 60 is 1242spi, 75 is 1242mpi, (i'm not sure about the 85, not seen many of them and certainly not been under the bonnet of one).

And then you have the trim levels, which would the s, sx or elx, there's probably some more.

So the OP's donor car is a 60SX, so 1242 spi 8v engine, with some electric bits the 60S would have, would hazard a guess at central locking and electric windows.

Huwbishop said:

So just to confirm, by splicing all the wires together all four injectors fire at the same time, they are not timed to each cylender?.

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For the old MPI system from punto 75 (IAW 8F/18F ECU) yes, that is exactly like that.

Is the mpi any more fuel efficient than the spi?.

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You mean for the 1.2 engine - SPI vs. MPI. I would say no, P75 MPI produces considereably more power, has to take more fuel by physics.

blu73 said:

As i understand it, the number refers to the engine, the letter refer the trim level.

So 55 is 1108spi, 60 is 1242spi, 75 is 1242mpi, (i'm not sure about the 85, not seen many of them and certainly not been under the bonnet of one).

And then you have the trim levels, which would the s, sx or elx, there's probably some more.

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Right. It seems to me that in some countries Fiat would not sell ceratain engine/trim combinations and/or introduce combinations not available elsewhere.

Punto 85 would be the 1.2 16V I guess.

So the OP's donor car is a 60SX, so 1242 spi 8v engine, with some electric bits the 60S would have, would hazard a guess at central locking and electric windows.

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The OP claims it is a 75SX

Yes the donor is a 75SX.

Punto was available (Mk1) as 55S, 55SX(very rare) 75S and 75SX. Extra on the SX version was PS, El.windows, central locking, painted mirror and bumpers, rev.counter. All had heated drivers seat .

The 16V arrived first time in 2000 with the Mk2. This is sold as 60 and 80. The 80 ELX is popular because of the 16V engine. Not sure if the 60 is SPI or MPI....anyone? Think all 80 are ELX (which means extra trim/options)

I think the easiest way to increase power with minimum cost is to swap the 1.1 with a 1.2. with a tubular manifold. Will end ut with close to 80Hp.... This is ok for now.
This car will be used as a daily car during the winter so I will expect it to be reliable

-Tore

redVXcoupe said:

The 16V arrived first time in 2000 with the Mk2. This is sold as 60 and 80. The 80 ELX is popular because of the 16V engine. Not sure if the 60 is SPI or MPI....anyone?

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With Mk2 there was no SPI option anymore, all were MPI, sequenatial too. This is the one that Fingers was referring to at the top. 8V in this case is still making only 60HP, hence the comment about lack of sense of converting to it