Technical Cinq 1.2 MPI conversion, yet another question

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Technical Cinq 1.2 MPI conversion, yet another question

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I'm currently working on my Cinq to convert it to a 1.2 MPI engine.
As suggested to me on the forum I ripped out the 1.2 MPI engine loom an fitted a original Cinq loom.
I could'nt find a cinq on a car junkyard that had a KeyCode.

I checked my car's keycode reader and the cable wasn't attached to anything.
Also tyhe codebox was gone.
As the new ECU does'nt have a KeyCode I desided to take the engine loom of a Cinq that did'nt have a KeyCode.

But this backfired hard!

I placed it this evening.
But when I turned the ignition the CODE light came up.
Also with the old ECU.

After searching my car I found out there's a alarm build in.
I don't have a remote so I thought the blinking light was fake all the time.:confused:

The alarm is a DEFA Patriot 500.
Manual can be found here:
http://www.defa.com/doc/5090.997706518.DEFAxBilalarmxMonteringsanvisningxNorsk.PDF

I think this box has replaced the normal CodeBox and has a code programmed into it that it check's with the ECU.
I want to use the Punto ECU so this alarm has to go.

The tricky part is that my central locking is also managed by this box.
So I only want to remove the ignition lock.

As I was reading the manual, can't firgure out the language but tried it, if found this picture.



As you can see the plug labeld P-1 cut's of the ignition.
I want to trace thos cables and restore the original wireing.

I would like to know if more people agree with me on doing this to get my car running?
Just to be sure before I go on and cut up the cables.
 
As nobody replied I tried it tonight and the starter is turing.
Codelight is flashing but it works.

When I conneect the orginal 1.1 SPI ECU the coils spark.
When I connect the 1.2 MPI ECU they don't.

They have a 12v feed constantly.
So I think it's not getting the signal to fire.

As I was told on the forum I should use the original engine loom from the Cinquecento and use the 1.2 MPI ECU.
I would like to be sure I don't have to change anything on the engine loom to get it to work.
If that's the case my 1.2 MPI ECU is probably broken.

So do I have to change anything on the engine loom to get it to work with the 1.2 MPI ECU?

Besides adding the 3 extra injectorsn and probably siconnect pin 26 to prevewnt batterydrain.
 
As nobody replied I tried it tonight and the starter is turing.
Codelight is flashing but it works.

When I conneect the orginal 1.1 SPI ECU the coils spark.
When I connect the 1.2 MPI ECU they don't.

They have a 12v feed constantly.
So I think it's not getting the signal to fire.

As I was told on the forum I should use the original engine loom from the Cinquecento and use the 1.2 MPI ECU.
I would like to be sure I don't have to change anything on the engine loom to get it to work.
If that's the case my 1.2 MPI ECU is probably broken.

So do I have to change anything on the engine loom to get it to work with the 1.2 MPI ECU?

Besides adding the 3 extra injectorsn and probably siconnect pin 26 to prevewnt batterydrain.

Did you also investigate and take care of the water sensor plug?

Edit: Also, which exact 1.2 MPI ECU are you trying to use? Full name, symbols, etc.
 
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I have 2 water temp sensors.
One on the inlet manifold and one on the radiator.
The one on the manifold is connected to the ECU.
The one on the radiator go's directly into the car, does'nt connect to the engine loom.

I have to get to you on the exact specs of the 1.2 MPI ECU tonight.
 
The thing is there are two 8F.5T ECUs for Punto 75, one has an ECOL tag on it and it is substantially bigger than the other one. The other is the newer one and has something like FASE 2 written on it. This ECOL one is a known trouble maker, but do not ask me exactly how, I actually have one (besides the new one in the car) and I was able to fire up my old 1.1 SPI engine on it once. But on some second attempts it failed totally. For me it was also useless, because the internals and hence the ECU program are apparently different technology not usable for my purposes. Also, it does not have any immo.

Which brings me to another issue: are you sure (maybe you stated this before somewhere), that your ECU is decoded? Because no spark sounds like it is locked. The keycode light flashes/no flashes are meaningless in this situation I think as you have this alarm thing and I don't think it actually talks to the ECU. It is possible to check the state of the ECUs immo via diagnostics, I have the means to do it, but ideally it would require the presence of my car (because my diag cable is integral to the car ;)), my laptop, and myself.

But these are only my guesses. In any case, I have this old type Punto 1.2 8F.5T ECU in my basement if you are interested.
 
Before I removed the alarm the car engine did'nt turn over with the old or new ECU.
With the alarm removed/hotwired it turns over with both of them.
My old ECU has a keycode but the original codebox is'nt connect, I don't even have it.

The 1.2 ECU cam off the car from what I took the engine.
In that car I could'nt find the CodeBox also there's was no ring around the ignition barrel.

I will check the type of it tonight.

As I read you post, the engine loom doesn't have to be modified?
 
Before I removed the alarm the car engine did'nt turn over with the old or new ECU.
With the alarm removed/hotwired it turns over with both of them.
My old ECU has a keycode but the original codebox is'nt connect, I don't even have it.

The 1.2 ECU cam off the car from what I took the engine.
In that car I could'nt find the CodeBox also there's was no ring around the ignition barrel.

I will check the type of it tonight.

As I read you post, the engine loom doesn't have to be modified?

I wouldn't say so, if it starts with one ECU, it should with the other one too.
 
I've been testing again tonight.
With on 1.1 SPI ECU it turns the starter and spraks.
With another on it turn the starter but it does'nt sprak.
Also the 1.2 MPI ECU turns the starter but does'nt sprak.

So I think there's still some sort of code in the ECU.

The type is:

IAW 8F.5T
IAW 8F.5T/070C-18
Fiat Punto 1.2 CM MPI IMB
 
I've been testing again tonight.
With on 1.1 SPI ECU it turns the starter and spraks.
With another on it turn the starter but it does'nt sprak.
Also the 1.2 MPI ECU turns the starter but does'nt sprak.

So I think there's still some sort of code in the ECU.

The type is:

IAW 8F.5T
IAW 8F.5T/070C-18
Fiat Punto 1.2 CM MPI IMB

Well, it is not this ECOL thing then, so it might have immo coded inside, but then, if you took it out of a car with no code box, it should decoded / in virgin state. No spark, isn't that because of wet plugs after all the tries?
 
No, injector aren't fueled up yet.
And I check the sparsk with a plug laying on top of the engine.
1.2 MPI ECU don't have codes titl 1196 I think?
This one is from 1994.

Don't know about which do and which do not have the code. But I would say no spark in this case means either broken ECU (be it something serious, or just bad connection on the big plug) or coded one. The second case is easily checkable with diagnostics.
 
Whell I tested it tonight and it did'nt spark(n)
I checked out the ECU I got with the engine and the last digit of the serialnumber is 95. Does this state it's form 1995?

I there a way to remove the keycode from the ECU without spending a fortune?
 
Whell I tested it tonight and it did'nt spark(n)
I checked out the ECU I got with the engine and the last digit of the serialnumber is 95. Does this state it's form 1995?

Well, it starts sounding very suspicious to me.

I there a way to remove the keycode from the ECU without spending a fortune?

As I said, I can check if it is coded with diagnostics, removing it is something I have to find out, will get back to you.
 
As one ECU does spark, (SPI version), I was cameup with this idea.

The engine loom is the same. Only 4 injector on the same 2 wires.
Ca'nt I just put in the 1.2 MPI ECU chip into the 1.1 SPI ECU.
I know the Keycode is'nt stored in that chip.
And the program manages when to fire an how long the nozzles have to be opend right?

Would this be possible or would it destory the engine?
 
Don't do it!!! ECU's are different hardware, it will certainly not work, destroying stuff is a matter of time, either ECU or the engine is a matter of (short) time.
 
Have'nt done it yet.
Also I have been testing again tonight and I got sparkes with the ECOL ECU.
So I added the 4 injector to the engine loom replacing the original one.
Also found out that on the MPI engine loom of the punto that the earth wire of the injectors are on a different pin.
I don't think this is a problem as multiple sensors join on the earth wire.

Tommorow I will try to connect the fuel line and Lambda sensor and will give it a try.

I tested these things to be sure nothing is blocked:

Start turnes round
The plug give sparks
Fuel pump pump fuel through the line

Is there anything else that can be blocked?
 
Have'nt done it yet.

What I mean by different hardware is that the newer P75 ECU, although it uses the same CPU, has an extra RAM module and hence slightly different memory addressing. In any case if the SPI chip would work in this ECU it would be a small miracle. It would most likely just hang/freeze.

Also found out that on the MPI engine loom of the punto that the earth wire of the injectors are on a different pin.
I don't think this is a problem as multiple sensors join on the earth wire.

Well, carefull here, what do you mean exactly? The injectors are steered by ECU through the ground wire, the injector's +12V is connected constantly through the fuel pump relay. What exact pins are you talking about?

EDIT: just dug up some info from my files: the SPI loom injector cable pink-black I connected to the white-blue of the injectors from Palio. The other colors I think were orange-black (SPI) connected to green(-something) of the Palio injectors.
 
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Whell it's alive:slayer:

Somehow it did'nt got earth very good.
So I extended the earth wire from the ECU to the gearbox. After that it starts.

Thx for all the help everyone.
It's not running perfect yet.
Engine is nice and stable but sometimes goes down in rpm.

My dash doesn't work.
No temp/fuel or RPM signals.
Cables are attached so I think it's a fuse that popped.

Also nog exhaust is mounted so the engine doesn;t have any presure through the exhaust. I think it will run better ones it is placed.
Have to weld it first.

Also the gascable hangs.
Throttle works fine so I think I have to replace the complete cable.
 
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