Technical Checking gearbox oil level - MPI Seicento SX

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Technical Checking gearbox oil level - MPI Seicento SX

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Can anyone help with how to check the gearbox oil?

My MPI 2002 Seicento SX has been playing up - the changes are no longer smooth and sometimes some gears are unselectable - It just won't go in. This is quite infrequent though. But all gear changes have become rough. As in you can feel the gears joining in a way you couldn't before. It used to be perfectly smooth. I have checked the clutch cable and the clutch is not biting on the bottom. The biting point is more or less in the middle of the pedal travel. So I thought it would be worth checking the gearbox oil level, seeing as the mileage is at 64000 and from searching I gather it should be changed anyway at 72000?

However I cannot locate the filler plug. I pulled off a small green plastic plug which is loose, I assume this is the breather? I can see no sign of any oil in this hole, it looks dry!

I think I have found the drain plug on the front side of the gearbox, but all I have is a Haynes cinquecento manual and the Sporting model in that seems to have a different gearbox. Besides I don't need the drain plug (yet) it's the filler plug I need!

From searching the forum I gather FIAT dealer's gearbox oil is the best if it does need doing?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
 
The hex plug on the side is the filler plug -- the drain is underneath. Just use a squirty bottle, level ground -- and when the oil starts coming out again, it's full.

Those boxes use wet inner driveshaft joints -- if the rubber goes, the oil comes out. Death of gearbox/diff follows very shortly afterwards. So check the inner gaitors while you're there.
 
The fill plug is quite low down. It's easy to see if you stick your head under the n/s bumper. The drain plug, obviously, is even lower, on the underside of the gearbox.

The only way to check the oil level is to put more in until it overflows.

With the mileage on yours, I'd go for a full change with decent synth gearbox oil (I started a thread on gearbox oil a couple of months ago) and measure roughly how much of the old stuff comes out. Check the driveshaft gaiters aren't losing oil.
 
Thanks for the help.

I've gone to my local FIAT dealer and got the oil, it says

Tutela Car Technyx
SAE 75W-85 API GL4 PLUS FIAT6.55550

But in this thread Pep0 states its should be "75W/90 oil to meet
API GL5 & Mil-L-2105D specifications"

I just want to be sure before sticking it in.

I will be checking the rubber gaitors too.

I'm just gonna go for a top-up first. If that makes no difference I'll probably do a full change.

But after reading other threads I will try adjusting the clutch. What's the likelyhood it is actually the clutch on it's way out causing these problems? Most of the last 30,000 miles has been round town driving.

P.S. Squirty bottle? I'm gonna have to be creative here...
 
Thanks for the help.

I've gone to my local FIAT dealer and got the oil, it says

Tutela Car Technyx
SAE 75W-85 API GL4 PLUS FIAT6.55550

But in this thread Pep0 states its should be "75W/90 oil to meet
API GL5 & Mil-L-2105D specifications"

I just want to be sure before sticking it in.

I will be checking the rubber gaitors too.

I'm just gonna go for a top-up first. If that makes no difference I'll probably do a full change.


Oil will be fine, you may find oil coming out the gaiters as you put it in.

But after reading other threads I will try adjusting the clutch. What's the likelyhood it is actually the clutch on it's way out causing these problems? Most of the last 30,000 miles has been round town driving.

Entirely probable, do check.


P.S. Squirty bottle? I'm gonna have to be creative here...

Does the Fiat oil not come in a container with an extendable neck?

Cheers

SPD
 
Does the Fiat oil not come in a container with an extendable neck?
It comes in those annoying Wynns style cans that can't be resealed.
I went to a nearby hardware shop armed with my funnel and bought some clear PVC hose that fitted over the end of the funnel and into the gearbox fill hole.

The funnel wedges into the engine bay nicely and makes the job very easy.
 
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The oil I've got came in a plastic bottle like the 1l bottles of engine oil do.

So they used to come in metal cans?!

I've got a few pics here:

Underside of gearbox - If the thing with a red ring around it is the filler, where is the drain?

dscn2172edit.jpg


Inner driveshaft gaitor - N/S
dscn2159.jpg


Inner driveshaft gaitor - O/S

dscn2167.jpg


Both look dry and fine to me.

Rallycinq - how do you check the clutch without actually visibly seeing it by taking it apart?
 
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There is an odd thing, you have Sporting gearbox, not wet joints.

So its not that then.

Drain is just in front of the rear gearbox mount, about the lowest part of the box.

Give the clutch cable adjustment a couple of turns and see if it gets better.

Cheers

SPD
 
Hi David

It is a 1100 engine (?) dont they all have 'dry' gaiters? = two questions...

Either oil will do I think my spec was from a FIAT site or publication I wont have made it up, they would be near equivalents.

Halfords sell their equivalent in cute plastic bottles that you can squeeze to fill.

The synchro on my box is very dependent on oil viscosity and temperature, such that you need to give it time from 1st to second unless the box is really warm, 100 miles at 70mph, in summer...

You need to floor the clutch even when adjusted.

But the clutch release bearings on yours may be about to fail... mine managed 64000 miles.

Noel
 
I adjusted the clutch so the biting point is higher up the pedal now, first and second occasionally feel smoother now but third and second don't feel any different. You can still feel the gear wheels coming together, even when changing into fourth from third at 30mph. (which is the speed it feels natural to change at).

I wonder if that means all the MPI SXs have sporting gearboxes?

EDIT - Pep0 - 64000 yours managed, mine is at 64000 now. :eek:

So I guess the only foolproof option is to get the clutch changed?
 
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I adjusted the clutch so the biting point is higher up the pedal now, first and second occasionally feel smoother now but third and second don't feel any different. You can still feel the gear wheels coming together, even when changing into fourth from third at 30mph. (which is the speed it feels natural to change at).

I wonder if that means all the MPI SXs have sporting gearboxes?

I've not had a lot to do with MPi Seis but general wisdom was that the 1108 SXs had wet joints, yours doesn't, which is actually a good thing.

I'd still be doing the top up/oil change. See how it goes from there.

Cheers

SPD
 
I'd not change the (a) clutch preemptively.

The replacement oil may make a big difference, it has helped a lot with other people, and the clutch adjustment and pedal technique both need to be spot on as well.

So dont worry yet.

Keep the oil off your skin, especially if you have any one in family with exema or hay fever. rubber gloves...

Noel
P.S. thiink the ratios in the box may be different, between the sporting and the other models
 
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OK, so the oil's getting changed.

I've done so many trouble-free miles in this car now I reckon I've got the pedal technique OK by now, but the clutch cable adjustment is something else. Whenever I adjust the clutch it's always been because the biting point has moved towards the top of the pedal. which I am led to believe is due to clutch wear. So I have adjusted it two or three times already since I've had the car. But even after I'd adjusted it to move the biting point back down nearer the bottom, I've never had any problems with rough changes.

Luckily no excema or hayfever! But I will be using rubber gloves anyway as I'm told the stuff stinks.
 
as well as replacement drive shafts?

Don't think the factory would have had two build standards e.g. parts ordering would be real fun.

Noel
 
Thhe S and SX had a different gearbox and different ratios to the Sporting. So, either they ran out of gearboxes at the factory or yours has been through one already...........

ou might check that the clips which retain the cables are still in place. Also check that the remote has a reverse detente -- the SX remote will work with the Sporting box, but has no detente and the action isn't as good.
 
You might check that the clips which retain the cables are still in place. Also check that the remote has a reverse detente -- the SX remote will work with the Sporting box, but has no detente and the action isn't as good.

Detente? Do you mean the thing you have to lift up for reverse? If so then yes I do have that.

The gearbox crunches often when going into reverse - I gathered that this is because I'm not leaving long enough between putting the clutch down and engaging reverse gear - I read somewhere that because there is no synchromesh on reverse you need to leave a few seconds between putting clutch down and engaging reverse. When I do wait 3 or 4 seconds it doesn't crunch.

When you say clips do you mean the cables for gear selection, under the bonnet on top of the gearbox?

Something else which may be relevant - the clutch cable snapped about 10000 miles ago, was replaced, but is creaking again now.

From reading other threads I gather this could be something to do with the clutch release bearing being on the way out?
 
Something that also should be noted is the fact that my car was involved in a collision when it was a few months old (before I owned it) and due to this it has had (at least)

- Respray offside
- New wheel arch liner on nearside
- new bumper

When the bumper was replaced they didn't put the piece of plastic back which goes behing the bumper on the gearbox side. So you can see right through the bumper to the gearbox. Perhaps the gearbox was damaged when the accident happened?
 
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